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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 Feedback

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mkint
#361 - 2012-08-16 15:39:18 UTC
Steijn wrote:
well they still havent fixed the tutorial neocom button, so it doesnt fill me with much hope that todays patch has actually fixed anything at all.

How hard is it to program something that says 'if tick box a is yes, then do not display button b in neocom'?

That's a dirty workaround. What's really wrong is much more horrifying. That is the game is no longer compatible with its own settings files.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#362 - 2012-08-16 17:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
CCP Arrow wrote:

If you could describe to us the use cases of issues you have with Salvaging, PoS management, general Inventory Management, Mining ops & PvP then I would be glad to bring that to the appropriate parties for review. Anything that allows us to redo the action you have a problem doing, will get us closer to fixing it for you.


Use case: the wrecks / cans window always closed once pressed the "loot all" button.

Now if I opened it with shift + click, it does that.
If I just press the loot icon on the top right of the overview with no shift, then the looted wreck window does not go away.
Instead, a leftover window showing the same contents of the cargo hold appears.
It should close, not leave contents of another window.
Same happens at a POS: open a laboratory corporate hold and go away (do not warp, just fly beyond the allowed range). The corporate holds will be replaced by the usual rogue window showing the ship cargo hold contents.


Other use case setting:

Orca in multi-corps fleet, configured to allow fleet usage.
All the mining ships have the same "Corporate hold" open on their client.

Two bugs:

1) If the Orca warps away (i.e. to empty off minerals) the corporate windows DO NOT close (they used to do before the new inventory UI). Instead, once again, a rogue window showing the same contents of the various ships cargo hold appears.


2) If one of the pilots in the fleet is a CEO (director / with auditing privileges? I am sure about CEO) then that CEO can see the contents of the Orca corporate hold even if the Orca is NOT in his corporation. All the other members instead (both in Orca corp and not) correctly show a message stating they are not enabled to see the corporate hold contents.
This bug was present before the inventory patch.



I have more 5-6 of these cases, but have no time to play ATM.

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Tomytronic
Perkone
Caldari State
#363 - 2012-08-16 17:17:51 UTC
And the overview bug fix is coming.... when?
Infinite Force
#364 - 2012-08-16 17:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
CCP Arrow wrote:
If you could describe to us the use cases of issues you have with Salvaging, PoS management, general Inventory Management, Mining ops & PvP then I would be glad to bring that to the appropriate parties for review. Anything that allows us to redo the action you have a problem doing, will get us closer to fixing it for you.

In regards to the UI and PoS work. It is still VERY laggy.

For example, do the following from a POS with huge number of modules (SMAs, CHAs, ECM, Guns, Hardeners, Labs, Assembly Arrays, etc. -- totalling 120+ structures):
1. Board Orca (or Rorqual) -- just because they have more windows to open
2. Open Cargo hold (in seperate window)
3. Open Corp hangars (in seperate window)
4. Open Ore hold (in seperate window)
Now, warp the Ship in #1 to go pickup that mined Ore, Gas, or loot.

When I do this from a loaded up POS, I can warp up to 8 AU before I get my interface back.

In some cases (e.g. 4 AU warps), I have landed and the ship has almost stopped (< 20 m/s) before the client becomes responsive again.

I've also noticed that any clients that are warping to and from a POS & Site (e.g. Mining ops) will slowly start to eat more than a 1gb of memory -- more than any other client -- eventually becoming unstable and too laggy to use.

Under the old inventory system, this was never an issue.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Nikotium
Minmatar Star Scrapers
#365 - 2012-08-16 20:10:36 UTC
i liked the fact that the ore is separated from the rest of the cargo, makes it a bit easier to carry nonessential things with you such as ammo and other fun things without sacrificing cargo space for ore :) can't say i noticed much in the graphics change though.. but then again i have been playing eve on a crappy laptop, before my brand new gaming computer came along and saved my eyes.

"Ya'll need to cool yo jets! Aint no need fer all that hate."
Bantara
Dolmite Cornerstone
#366 - 2012-08-16 20:59:29 UTC
Basil Vulpine wrote:
First they came for a 90K skill and I didn't speak out because I didn't have that 90K skill.
Then they came for a 200K skill and I didn't speak out because I didn't have that 200K skill.
Now they come for my 2 Mill skill and there is nobody left to speak for me because the precedent has been established.
{...}
This is a matter of principle, of maintaining good precedents that have been set in the past.
CCP, you have the tools you need to do the right thing. Please do it so that we can have confidence that you will do the right thing in the future, like when you redo ship hulls and their skills.

To all those rank-2-90k-SP folks, this is a matter of principle. Yep, those are pretty small skillpoints, and they really wouldn't do anything for me. I wouldn't notice the difference in my skill plan. But that doesn't change what they should or shouldn't do. (Granted, I'm declaring that by mine and others' standards.)

And CCP continues their silence on this issue. We asked, you replied, but your reply wasn't an explaination as far as I and others can tell. Something is missing. I will re-ask....
Bantara wrote:

Explain to me....
1) How removing a skill and replacing it with something completely unrelated (other than the corporation aspect) is a balancing issue? Those are your words. Balancing would be about bringing two or more things into intended comparative relations with each other. I fail to see how a multi-racial population restriction and the cost of hiring allies in war are comparable.

2) How removing Ethnic Relations and its function is different than the removal of the entire Learning category of skills and their functions. Sounds the same to me yet you treat them differently, and then talk about a "long-standing policy".

Frankly your answers sound made up just so you don't have to do the work of refunding 90k SP. Too bad, then you shouldn't have removed the skill, and noone would have said a thing. (There are bigger fish to fry.)

Lucius Arcturus wrote:

I do not like this, CCP.
I do not like you choosing skills for me.
I do not like it in my ship,
I do not like your cunning quip.

I would not train this skill in my pod,
{...}
I would not put this in my brain,
You would not see it on my main.

I would not inject it, no I won't,
But reimburse my SPs, no you don't?

I like to choose my very own skills,
Your rationale gives me the chills.

Please let me set my own training plan,
Thank you, thank you, Sam I am!
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#367 - 2012-08-16 21:58:56 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:


Did you try the new setting we added into the header of the Inventory that allows you to open up secondary windows always by default without the need to hold shift? That should solve the issue you describe regarding windows not appearing again where you expect them, because you are probably opening primary windows, but positioned a secondary window.

If you could describe to us the use cases of issues you have with Salvaging, PoS management, general Inventory Management, Mining ops & PvP then I would be glad to bring that to the appropriate parties for review. Anything that allows us to redo the action you have a problem doing, will get us closer to fixing it for you.


I did not know about that option. I just tried it and it is only mildly better. Like you said it saves me from having to hold shift which was the smallest part of the problem. It now does what it was doing when I held shift without holding shift which is still AFU. If I open and position windows and then close them all and reopen then the windows open nearly on top of each other instead of opening where they were when I closed them.

If you had played the game before you guys broke it then you would know how an inventory system should work. The old inventory system was one of the very few aspects of this game that was not broken. Instead of fixing something broken you guys broke something that was fine.

The old inventory system worked well. The only thing that it lacked was an ability to sort by meta and or tech level along with filtering BP originals from copies. Other than that it was perfect.

This new inventory system makes every aspect of this game a PITA. It is terrible and so basic that it basically fucks the whole game up. Imagine if I changed all the keys on your keyboard around and then tried to figure out what it would take to make writing code easy for you. You'd be like " just give me my ******* old key layout back dumbass ".

Picture this. Try running an industrial operation for both your self and your corp that combines station activities with PoS activities. So when you dock you need to open corp hangars as well as your personal hangar and several station containers that you use to keep everything organized. Then you undock and warp to a station and have to manage multiple reactors and silos. Now on top of all that add to that windows opening in a cascading manner one on top of the other so that every single time you have to resize and rearrange all of your windows and hope you don't get any mixed up and wind up with corp assets and personal assets all mixed together.

I used to warp to a PoS and open silos and storage containers to find things in the same place and of the same size where I left them. That was the old inventory system and it worked and it was easy. Don't try moving forward don't try fixing this broken system any further just role back to the old system and add a drop down meta filter and you are done.

I fail to understand why you guys are investing so much time trying to fix something broken when the old system worked fine. Admit you screwed up and roll back to the old way then use Dev time to do something productive from here on out.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2012-08-16 23:56:40 UTC
Tomytronic wrote:
And the overview bug fix is coming.... when?

CCP: "What overview bug?"

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#369 - 2012-08-17 01:00:27 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tomytronic wrote:
And the overview bug fix is coming.... when?

CCP: "What overview bug?"


Your own drones apperence is the same as the drones of others in fleet. It suckes that you cant see what your drones are doing.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#370 - 2012-08-17 01:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
SoapyTits wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tomytronic wrote:
And the overview bug fix is coming.... when?

CCP: "What overview bug?"


Your own drones apperence is the same as the drones of others in fleet. It suckes that you cant see what your drones are doing.

That's not a bug, and it's not what he's referring to. And my little quip (can't really call it a joke) clearly flew over your head.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Khoul Ay'd
The Affiliation
#371 - 2012-08-17 04:03:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Use case: the wrecks / cans window always closed once pressed the "loot all" button.

Now if I opened it with shift + click, it does that.
If I just press the loot icon on the top right of the overview with no shift, then the looted wreck window does not go away.
Instead, a leftover window showing the same contents of the cargo hold appears.
It should close, not leave contents of another window.
Same happens at a POS: open a laboratory corporate hold and go away (do not warp, just fly beyond the allowed range). The corporate holds will be replaced by the usual rogue window showing the ship cargo hold contents.


Other use case setting:

Orca in multi-corps fleet, configured to allow fleet usage.
All the mining ships have the same "Corporate hold" open on their client.

Two bugs:

1) If the Orca warps away (i.e. to empty off minerals) the corporate windows DO NOT close (they used to do before the new inventory UI). Instead, once again, a rogue window showing the same contents of the various ships cargo hold appears.


2) If one of the pilots in the fleet is a CEO (director / with auditing privileges? I am sure about CEO) then that CEO can see the contents of the Orca corporate hold even if the Orca is NOT in his corporation. All the other members instead (both in Orca corp and not) correctly show a message stating they are not enabled to see the corporate hold contents.
This bug was present before the inventory patch.


Confirming that all of these are issues and are very annoying.

The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it
Mini Mizer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2012-08-17 04:20:15 UTC
arg frakkin unified inventory


you suck
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#373 - 2012-08-17 04:52:32 UTC
So...why does the inventory still not have separate neocom buttons back for item hangar and ship hangar? Could really use those right now. I look forward to the day I can take the inventory button of my Neocom. That day will be a glorious victory for everyone.
Pawiie
BlackWatch Security Group
Northern Coalition.
#374 - 2012-08-17 12:52:14 UTC
nice patch - I have a small problem when I login though...

I CANT CHOOSE ANY OF MY CHARECTERS !!!!!

Charecter Login screen

Hope someone will have an answer for this.


  • I tried reloggin.
  • I tried clearing my catche.
  • I tried running repairs.

    • Hakaru Ishiwara
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #375 - 2012-08-17 15:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
    ergherhdfgh wrote:
    *snip*

    This new inventory system makes every aspect of this game a PITA. It is terrible and so basic that it basically fucks the whole game up. Imagine if I changed all the keys on your keyboard around and then tried to figure out what it would take to make writing code easy for you. You'd be like " just give me my ******* old key layout back dumbass ".

    *snip*
    Excellent analogy.

    Add onto the changed keyboard layout, key positions that sometimes changed location and appearance as if a colleague were secretly playing a joke on you after-hours -- every working day. Additionally, imagine user-generated keyboard macros that sometimes inherited [undesirable] properties from the most recently generated macros. Neither fun nor productive, right?

    As an end-user, I would either throw out recycle the keyboard or send it back to the manufacturer and likely write up my findings and tell every computer-using friend to stay well away from that particular product.

    Is this a scenario that CCP wishes to promote and support for the next several months (CCP Soundwaffe provided time-frame) while customers continue to struggle with a defect-riddled and design-challenged UI?

    +++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
    MortisLegati
    Everything Went Black
    #376 - 2012-08-17 17:45:05 UTC
    It irks me so much when people say that the hulk isn't the most effective miner in the game in terms of pure yield.
    Yes, for all the solo miners, the mackinaw is the better choice. That was the intention. That was there to give you choices.
    Now not do you pick modules particularly for yield, tank, or cargohold; that's the ships themselves that give you most of those bonuses, much like you'd pick one cruiser over another for different combat tasks.
    You can still specialize within a field, to the most part, at least to the two things that matter to a miner. Yield and tank. Cargohold, for design and balance reasons, stays tied to the ships (since you're getting a much larger size on the other non-fleet ships (where the cargo size shouldn't matter beyond a full cycle or so) than you could have with modules and rigs it's an upgrade no matter what) for role reasons.
    Mini Mizer
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #377 - 2012-08-18 06:25:57 UTC
    the hulk isn't the most effective miner in the game

    hehe

    unified inventory still sucks
    Sturmwolke
    #378 - 2012-08-18 07:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
    Finally, performance issue related to salvaging appears to have been solved. Abusing the clicks to open&loot as many containers as possible (as fast as you could click) works at the same speed as before uninventory. The fix is 95% spot on.

    The missing 5% is reliability. The cans you opened and looted can sometimes fail to do just that under the extreme speed.
    It goes back to being a can and you have to click & loot on them again.

    The window behaviour however is still illogical and it forces you to use the main Inventory window (Alt-C). Several of the above posts touches on the same thing - the main stickler being it doesn't close itself automatically after the last can has been looted. There have been various posts about this in one form or the other even before 1.2 , are you really reading the forum posts and understanding what's being said? One has to wonder, either you're unfamiliar with the looting process or you're doing them in a particularly exotic way to be unable to see the issue.

    Update: Yep, ok .. strike off that last paragraph. It worked as I'd wanted it to work via the "Always open in a separate window" box.
    I'd thought it was enabled, but it turned out it wasn't for some reason.

    There's no way to tell at a glance whether it's enabled or not, a mouseover or some sort of color/box indicator would be helpful (it's really just an on/off switch at this point in time).
    Niena Nuamzzar
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #379 - 2012-08-18 20:16:33 UTC
    Err... my ship is usually not remembering its zoom when undocked and my cargohold won't switch when changing ships I mean so many patches out there and this is broken still, why? Evil
    Rock Kicker
    Full Bore Inc
    #380 - 2012-08-19 04:21:30 UTC
    CCP Arrow wrote:
    ergherhdfgh wrote:
    The inventory system is still AFU ( All ****** Up) I am guessing at this point that it's not accidentally AFU but some kind of anti botting measure but I can't be sure. Anyway if the only way you can combat botters is to make everyone elses' game a PITA I find that sad.

    Inventory management is the most basic and used aspect of this game. Every time you dock it's a PITA. Every time you salvage it's a PITA. PoS management is now a PITA. Managing inventory is now a PITA. Mining ops are now a PITA. I hate to imagine if you are a PvPer trying to access something in your cargo in a hurry and just want your cargohold to open in the same ******* spot where you always have it open in the same ******* size but no if you forget to hit shift then your cargohold closes something else and opens in a different place and a different size and now you are scrambling to get the window that you just had open back.


    Did you try the new setting we added into the header of the Inventory that allows you to open up secondary windows always by default without the need to hold shift? That should solve the issue you describe regarding windows not appearing again where you expect them, because you are probably opening primary windows, but positioned a secondary window.

    If you could describe to us the use cases of issues you have with Salvaging, PoS management, general Inventory Management, Mining ops & PvP then I would be glad to bring that to the appropriate parties for review. Anything that allows us to redo the action you have a problem doing, will get us closer to fixing it for you.


    The 'Always open in a separate window' feature was a big help. Having to 'Shift' to do any inventory work was becoming a large PITA. especially every time I forgot to hold the Shift key when wanting a new window. Strange placement for a system-wide option, but just the fact you put it in is a huge help. (99% of all applications I use have a centralized setup area, broken into groups to delineate the area of the app for which they apply.)

    What happened to the NeoCom changes someone from CCP was talking about in a different thread? (couldn't find the specific post, after looking at various univ.inv. threads, I got tired of spending time searching) Specifically the return of the ship hangar button on the Neocom? Not sure if a corporate hangar button was mentioned, but that would be great too.

    As to dealing with POS management, if you have more than a few arrays, the tree becomes a royal pain to use, especially when needing to access specific divisions in an array. The Tab system in use by the old inventory system was much easier to use. No need to expand a tree, scroll around to find the array/division you want, click on it, and then shrink the tree. (I keep all tree collapsed to make more screen space available for the windows I need to work with) You simply clicked on the tab you needed. The only solution I've seen to make it easier to work with is opening every division in separate windows, and then stacking them to simulate the old tab system. Rather cumbersome when you have a number of arrays at your POS.

    The sad part is, I'm not talking about anything new. All of this has been covered (plus more) in the myriad of threads related to the Univ. Inv. Speaking for myself, I'd love to see a devblog with what all you guys have left in the pipeline that you are working on in relation to the univ. inv. It would be a huge help to those of us looking for specific improvements to the univ.inv. system.

    Personally, I just want the ease-of-use of the old inventory system back. You've made some improvements, but it still takes longer to do any work with the new one.

    The new UniFUBAR Inventory.  Where Clickfest rules and Usability fails.