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Strix pilot names Tibus Heth Enemy Number One.
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Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
#21 - 2012-07-14 06:21:25 UTC
Dex Nederland wrote:

So much hate in that from an UNat. The Provist are your brothers by a different mother.


Very true.

Self realisation is a rare gift.

Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-07-14 10:50:42 UTC
Calliste Gessenier wrote:
M. Khross,

Your allegations against President Jacus Roden and Roden Shipyards are typical of the received opinions the liberal main-stream media in the Federation, such as The Scope, seek to present to the public as "facts" but which are nothing more than lies, libel, and slander against an entrepreneur and businessman who has managed to raise himself from nothing to become President.

I would very much suggest alternative media outlets in the Federation for a more fair and balanced treatment on President Roden and Roden Shipyards.


Interesting assessment, since I've never paid attention to Federal media. I will, however, show you where I get my information. The capsuleer NeoCom is quite open about President Roden's character, particularly his unscrupulous business tactics. One need look no farther than some research into his personal history to see the rest of the pieces put in place.

Calliste Gessenier wrote:
You didn't. The political rights of self-determination for the Caldari State were made forfeit the moment they attacked the Federation and so opened a campaign of violence, war, and intimidation against the citizens of the Federation.


The moral high ground, self-righteousness and political advantage of the Federation were made forfeit the moment they blockaded us from our homeworld, engaging in their usual campaign of political superiority, cultural assimilation and legal intimidation against the Caldari, the Intaki and others. You're just upset that we didn't play nice after seeing you for the filth that you are.

Calliste Gessenier wrote:
It is clear that the Caldari State under Tibus Heth is an aggressive, bellicose and warmongering nation and the only path to peace both now and in the future is to ensure the implementation of an open and democratic society in the Caldari State and the absorption of Kaalakiota, Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi into the remaining five Megacorporations.


It is clear that the Federation will never understand what peace is because it will never understand how to not impress itself upon others and expect them to submit to its aggressive cultural expansion. It is clear the Federation, while wearing the flag of the White Knight, is just as interested in galactic conquest as the Amarr Empire but hides it behind outstretched hands of friendship and quiet cultural reformation. It is clear the Federation will never understand its neighbors and the other denizens of the cluster because it has no desire to, it only has a desire to force them all to play by its rules.

No, the path to peace starts with learning from your past mistakes, continues with sincere attempts to make restoration and be honest and fair in your treatment of others and ends when you accept that the Federation does not rule this cluster and others have just as much right to govern themselves.

~Malcolm Khross
Calliste Gessenier
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-07-14 12:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Calliste Gessenier
Malcolm Khross wrote:
The capsuleer NeoCom is quite open about President Roden's character, particularly his unscrupulous business tactics. One need look no farther than some research into his personal history to see the rest of the pieces put in place.


I have a few words for presenting aspersions and opinions on personal character as objective facts: Defamation, libel, slander and character assassination most readily come to mind. This is both what the supposed available NeoCom data is and it is practices that you have engaged in by asserting that personal defamation and slander are appropriate means of discourse and presentation of fact.

The only venue for such activities are if you were to do the following:

Malcolm Khross wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I direct your attention to Roden Shipyards


And seek to conduct the public haranguing of an individual in the courts of public opinion with the presentation of nothing more than libel and slander by which to prosecute them. It is understandable perhaps that legal procedures in the Caldari State differs from that in the Federation and it may be common practice indeed to hang a man on the most tenuous basis possible or is it more a case of Tibus Heth's Provist system of jurisprudence where Vox Populi, Vox Dei are sufficient grounds to pass judgement on guilt?


Malcolm Khross wrote:
The moral high ground, self-righteousness and political advantage of the Federation were made forfeit the moment they blockaded us from our homeworld, engaging in their usual campaign of political superiority, cultural assimilation and legal intimidation against the Caldari, the Intaki and others.


Your inherent bias and prejudice regarding the Federation and supposed cultural assimilation and legal intimidation aside, there are two incontrovertible historical facts:

1. The Caldari State through the Chief Executive Panel recognized Federal authority over Caldari Prime upon the conclusion of the first Federal-State War via legal armistice and treaty.

2. The Caldari State through State Executor Tibus Heth and the Caldari Providence Directorate broke that armistice and treaty upon the invasion of Federal territory.

As such the Caldari State under Tibus Heth reneged on the terms of the armistice, broke the peace between the Federation and the State and so long as State Executor Heth remains in power and the occupation of Luminaire persists, the Caldari State leaves the Federation only the sole recourse to violence for it appears the Caldari State is adamant in conducting diplomacy by no other means.

Malcolm Khross wrote:
It is clear that the Federation will never understand what peace is because it will never understand how to not impress itself upon others and expect them to submit to its aggressive cultural expansion. It is clear the Federation, while wearing the flag of the White Knight, is just as interested in galactic conquest as the Amarr Empire but hides it behind outstretched hands of friendship and quiet cultural reformation. It is clear the Federation will never understand its neighbors and the other denizens of the cluster because it has no desire to, it only has a desire to force them all to play by its rules.


A biased and prejudiced opinion that seeks to make the most trite assertions to justify continued violence and aggression against the Federation by the Caldari State and which does not merit any dignified response.

Malcolm Khross wrote:
No, the path to peace starts with learning from your past mistakes ... sincere attempts to make restoration and be honest and fair in your treatment of others


Such as the invasion of the Federation by State Executor Tibus Heth and ending the continued Military Occupation of Luminaire by the Caldari State, M. Khross?
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-07-14 13:00:11 UTC
Calliste Gessenier wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
The capsuleer NeoCom is quite open about President Roden's character, particularly his unscrupulous business tactics. One need look no farther than some research into his personal history to see the rest of the pieces put in place.


I have a few words for presenting aspersions and opinions on personal character as objective facts: Defamation, libel, slander and character assassination most readily come to mind. And seek to conduct the public haranguing of an individual in the courts of public opinion with the presentation of nothing more than libel and slander by which to prosecute them. It is understandable perhaps that legal procedures in the Caldari State differs from that in the Federation and it may be common practice indeed to hang a man on the most tenuous basis possible or is it more a case of Tibus Heth's Provist system of jurisprudence where Vox Populi, Vox Dei are sufficient grounds to pass judgement on guilt?


Vox Populi is a Gallente establishment, not a Caldari one. I was catering to your legal system and the desire to placate the majority of the population, consider it a demonstration of how things work in your Federation. Do not think I missed that you attempt to turn away verifiable historical fact regarding Jacques Roden by labeling it naught more than "libel" and "character assassination."


Calliste Gessenier wrote:
Your inherent bias and prejudice regarding the Federation and supposed cultural assimilation and legal intimidation aside, there are two incontrovertible historical facts:

1. The Caldari State through the Chief Executive Panel recognized Federal authority over Caldari Prime upon the conclusion of the first Federal-State War via legal armistice and treaty.

2. The Caldari State through State Executor Tibus Heth and the Caldari Providence Directorate broke that armistice and treaty upon the invasion of Federal territory.

As such the Caldari State under Tibus Heth reneged on the terms of the armistice, broke the peace between the Federation and the State and so long as State Executor Heth remains in power and the occupation of Luminaire persists, the Caldari State leaves the Federation only the sole recourse to violence for it appears the Caldari State is adamant in conducting diplomacy by no other means.


Supposed cultural assimilation? Lass, do you even read history or do you just presume to know it? To your first point, the CEP surrendered because it was forced to, not because it wanted to.

To your second point, the Federation broke the treaty with Admiral Noir and the assault on Malkalen, despite how much you wish to claim it was the actions of a single madman, the fact is that it happened using Federation resources, a Federal Admiral and during a peaceful delegation.

Calliste Gessenier wrote:
A biased and prejudiced opinion that seeks to make the most trite assertions to justify continued violence and aggression against the Federation by the Caldari State and which does not merit any dignified response.


You mean like your assertions against Wiyrkomi? Got it.

Calliste Gessenier wrote:
Such as the invasion of the Federation by State Executor Tibus Heth and ending the continued Military Occupation of Luminaire by the Caldari State, M. Khross?


As I have stated before and will state again, the retaking of Caldari Prime was not the most prudent way to go about it and it was indeed an instigator to the large-scale war we are in, but not the only instigator. However, the Federation, and those representing it, have never acknowledged their own fault in the events that have led to the friction between our people and the outbreak of war. So no, I wasn't referring to our angle but your attempt to portray it that way was entertaining.

~Malcolm Khross
Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#25 - 2012-07-14 15:09:31 UTC
A peace treaty was agreed to by the Federal government within hours of the return, and that war ended at that moment. The treaty included recognizing the Deteis and Civire have the right to their ancestors' homeworld. It has been ownership, not occupation, recognized by the Federal government. If you do not like it, take the matter up with the Senate on Luminaire. CONCORD's Militia Powers Act has no influence over Caldari Prime and is a separate 'war'.

The assassination of Gariushi-haan by a Pilot was one of the causes that made the return happen when it did. Murdering a second CEO would not be the wisest choice, with or without factionalism. Beyond the State's reaction, I doubt any of the nations would respond well to seeing a pattern emerging of us killing their leaders because we do not like them.
Benjamin Eastwood
#26 - 2012-07-14 16:23:37 UTC
Once again, the Gallente fail to realize that going to war with the Caldari is pure folly. War losses only serve to enrich and embolden us as a people, and for all the reservations I have over Heth, I respect the fact that he has managed to capitolize on those aspects perfectly. There is nothing more dangerous than a centralized Caldari force. Whilst the intangible effects of working as a common culture for our corperations has always proved well for us, we have only truly begun to prosper exponentially with a strong war machine against the Gallente. You will only hear the Caldari calling for peace when the war is no longer providing the financial returns we expect. The Gallente will call it whenever enough of their more spineless citizens cry for peace from the comfort of their arm chairs. And with the bleeding hearts I've seen, that may not be to far off.

"Endless ISK, the sinews of war"
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2012-07-15 02:38:27 UTC
Calliste Gessenier wrote:
The Caldari people deserve to live in an independent, free and open society which is currently not possible under the regime of Tibus Heth. We are fighting for the liberty of the Caldari people just as much as we are defending the Federation and its people against the aggression of the State Executor.


Gods and spirits. You merry lot still haven't figured out that the last time the Caldari people got exactly what they wanted, what they got was Tibus Heth? And it's not as though he's abruptly gotten all unpopular.

As the face of the State's war against the Federation, he'd be even more trouble to you dead. Alive, he's a man and a symbol. Dead, he'd just be a symbol. A man can always change or discredit what he stands for.

A martyr? Not so much.
Evet Morrel
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-17 21:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Evet Morrel
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
It is a corporate union that relies on the exploitation of foreign markets for domestic profit.


I find this an interesting comment, undeniable in fact, Malcolm Khross describes it as an "argument" sententiously imo, saying that you've explored this in detail over some time perhaps you could direct me to that conversation.


edit: to better indicate the bit of this statement I agree with.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#29 - 2012-08-17 22:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Evet Morrel wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Foreign corporations, no matter what their nationality, are bad news.


I find this an interesting comment, undeniable in fact, Malcolm Khross describes it as an "argument" sententiously imo, saying that you've explored this in detail over some time perhaps you could direct me to that conversation.

I'd like to deny that. The Kingdom has benefited tremendously from foreign corporations. Our economy, our military, our technology, and our way of life have improved because of interactions with the Caldari and letting foreign companies work in our borders.

These companies are only a problem if...
1) You are obsessed with cultural purity.
2) You are afraid of the competition foreign interests can spur within your domestic industries.
3) Your government is so debased as to be unable to limit or bargain with foreign interests.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Evet Morrel
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-08-17 23:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Evet Morrel
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Evet Morrel wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Foreign corporations, no matter what their nationality, are bad news.


I find this an interesting comment, undeniable in fact, Malcolm Khross describes it as an "argument" sententiously imo, saying that you've explored this in detail over some time perhaps you could direct me to that conversation.

I'd like to deny that. The Kingdom has benefited tremendously from foreign corporations. Our economy, our military, our technology, and our way of life have improved because of interactions with the Caldari and letting foreign companies work in our borders.

These companies are only a problem if...
1) You are obsessed with cultural purity.
2) You are afraid of the competition foreign interests can spur within your domestic industries.
3) Your government is so debased as to be unable to limit or bargain with foreign interests.


Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
It is a corporate union that relies on the exploitation of foreign markets for domestic profit.


The issues you raise are basically to vague/rhetorical to address, I find I have no sympathy with any of them. I've edited the quote to more precisely indicate the bit I was agreeing with - not that 'Foreign corporations, no matter what their nationality, are bad news.' isn't often the case, it is not a universal truth.
Henry Montclaire
Guild of Independent Pilots
DammFam
#31 - 2012-08-18 22:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Montclaire
So long as a Caldari Titan remains in Luminaire, it is the duty of every Gallente capsular to stand proud and strong behind our president. We must resist Caldari terrorism. If we allow our fear to rule our hearts, or compassion for our enemy to deteriorate our resolve, those innocents who rely on our protection within the sphere of factional warfare will be damned to Caldari dominion.

We are in the eye of a terrible storm. Before its might, the great flame of liberty is but a frail candle. A candle that must be protected, lest it be lost forever. Too many of our colonies have already been lost. How many of our brothers and sisters are now held under gun point on Caldari Prime and a dozen other worlds? We must be prepared, lest their fate become the fate of all lovers of freedom.

Support our troops!
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