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The Phoenix - unusably bad?
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Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-08-17 22:11:25 UTC
The title pretty much says it all really. Everything I've heard about the Phoenix pretty much boils down to "reprocess it".
I have no real experience with capital ships though, so I'd like to ask the ones who do:

What exactly is the current state of this ship? Reasoning and stats would be very helpful.

Thanks.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-08-17 22:28:30 UTC
Capital Missiles(boo!) vs. Capital Turrets(yay!)

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-08-17 23:14:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Klymer
While it doesn't have the paper dps of some of the other dreads, the selectable damage of missiles makes it possible for it to actually do more damage than some of the others depending on the resist profile of the target.

Frankly, I trained for a carrier as they're more versatile, and unless my alliance needs me in one or I get lucky on blink, I don't ever plan to own a dread of any kind.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-08-17 23:18:03 UTC
Only semi selectable really, it seems to take a pretty big DPS hit from using anything but kinetic. The target would need a really big resist hole for it to even out.
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#5 - 2012-08-17 23:21:26 UTC
The big problems with the Phoenix are both the un-remedied problem of capital missiles being difficult to apply correctly, (while capital turrets gain tracking power as the target moves further away) and the minor issue of missile flight time. It's just harder to use.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-18 00:08:34 UTC
The Phoenix is amazing. Dat volley damage.

I'm back!
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-08-18 00:09:26 UTC
it'd only usable vs structures or totally stationary capitals.
if a carrier is moving at full speed for example, it 'sig tanks' about 75% of the phoenix DPS.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-08-18 13:00:04 UTC
So they weren't exaggerating. That's unfortunate.
Thanks guys.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-08-18 13:19:15 UTC
Klymer wrote:
While it doesn't have the paper dps of some of the other dreads, the selectable damage of missiles makes it possible for it to actually do more damage than some of the others depending on the resist profile of the target.


False.

Good luck applying all that paper dps with Capital Missiles.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-08-18 15:05:34 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
it'd only usable vs structures or totally stationary capitals.
if a carrier is moving at full speed for example, it 'sig tanks' about 75% of the phoenix DPS.


While this is true, is it actually common for the carrier/dread being shot to be both unsieged/triaged and unwebbed? Two webs are enough.
Noisrevbus
#11 - 2012-08-18 15:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
Gypsio III wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
it'd only usable vs structures or totally stationary capitals.
if a carrier is moving at full speed for example, it 'sig tanks' about 75% of the phoenix DPS.


While this is true, is it actually common for the carrier/dread being shot to be both unsieged/triaged and unwebbed? Two webs are enough.


Most ships still omnitanks though and the Phoenix only have a single damage type bonus - shooting without the damage bonus it does half the DPS of the Moros even before you apply accuracy. Resistance holes to that degree are rare.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#12 - 2012-08-18 15:44:42 UTC
No, it's usable, but you need to throw off the shackles of convention and see farther and clearer than the unimaginative masses.

Example: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13234969 (right-click open in new window)

And some kills to show what that fit can do: http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=375809&m=4&y=2012
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#13 - 2012-08-18 18:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
you're talking like moros doesn't have optimal and falloff. To deal the same dps than phoenix, capital blaster need to use Lead charges, which mean their optimal is 41.25 and faloff 18.75. Phoenix deals full dps up to 59k (citadel). Yes moros can do 14.4k dps, but at 20.6k + 18.75k range
Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2012-08-18 18:21:49 UTC
You guys are forgetting one thing. The phoenix still deals full DPS after being neuted to 0
Big Bossu
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-08-18 18:33:31 UTC
reprocess and train rev/moros.

Can't hit subcaps.

Can't hit carriers/motherships/titans.

Really isn't better than Rev/Moros for POS or dread bashing.

Stop reasoning and just reprocess it.

/thread
Katalci
Kismesis
#16 - 2012-08-18 23:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
The Phoenix is okay for shooting capitals and POSes, but worthless for subcapitals.

Big Bossu wrote:
Can't hit carriers/motherships/titans.

Yes it can; learn to math. With 2 webs on a carrier, the Phoenix will do full damage. Titans and supercarriers will always take full damage.

Klymer wrote:
unless my alliance needs me in one or I get lucky on blink, I don't ever plan to own a dread of any kind.

ready to serve the Amarr Empire at any time lmao
Comodore John
4S Corporation
The Initiative.
#17 - 2012-08-19 00:10:04 UTC
Phoenix is good for shooting outposts and unhardened Minmatar POSes, not much else