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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Semi Organic / Crystalline Armor Modules for Passive Armor Regen

Author
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#21 - 2012-08-17 22:37:45 UTC
I feel this would bring us closer to homogenization. I would rather that not happen.

Sorry, just personal opinion.
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-08-17 23:34:52 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
I made a thread about this subject a while back. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130201


I apologize for not seeing yours. However this is definitely an expansion upon you idea. And both are a really interesting possibility.
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-08-17 23:35:56 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
I feel this would bring us closer to homogenization. I would rather that not happen.

Sorry, just personal opinion.


I am incredibly sorry to hear you feel this way. And I admit it does bring the two side to being incredibly similar. But I hope you can see the sheer potential of ideas like this.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#24 - 2012-08-18 01:24:21 UTC
Counter proposal:

Train shield tanking!
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#25 - 2012-08-18 01:48:56 UTC
ok, in seriousness with the OP, I have this to suggest:

it would be a low-slot module that has a limit of one per ship (like a damage control). Unlike a damage control, it won't have anything to do with shields and instead focus on both armor and hull.

Basically, it would passively grant 7.5% armor hitpoints/ 2% hull hitpoints per second while it is activated.

Going off the basis of shield's recharge being based off of a percentage instead of a flat rate, and that percentages make them effective regardless what ship they're fitted on (size wise) are the reasons why I've gone with them.

I'd also like to note that these percentages are basically a placeholder until a better one could be generated (perhaps though testing). I was at first going with 5% armor regen but that sounded too small (I also considered having it give a 1% or 0.5% shield regen bonus, but then thought that would make it too much like a damage control, and shields already get lots of help so it can just go away for now), though 10% sounded too large.

At any rate, what do ya'll think (and sorry for possible thread hijack, I just love ideas!)

Where the science gets done

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#26 - 2012-08-18 02:12:28 UTC
tankus2 wrote:
Basically, it would passively grant 7.5% armor hitpoints/ 2% hull hitpoints per second while it is activated.
[snip]
At any rate, what do ya'll think (and sorry for possible thread hijack, I just love ideas!)


7.5% per second? You realise that means you can regenerate your entire armor hitpoints in 14 seconds? And you're proposing that this be allowed with a single module in a low slot and passive as well? Did you actually think about this idea? Like, at all?

I am 100% against this 'passive regen for armor' idea. It's quite possibly the worst case of a "WAAAAA I want what he has, but don't want to lose anything!" argument I've ever seen. If this goes into game it better have a massive penalty to armor hitpoints when fitted (not just online, fitted). Something like this would still be stupid, but it wouldn't be completely imbalanced either:

Regerative Plating
Limit one per ship
Low slot
passive
Reduces cap regen by
-60% armor hitpoints on all Armor Plates (to reduce a 1600mm plate down to the same hitpoints as a LSE II)
Regenerates 10 armor hitpoints and 2 hull hitpoints per second. (low so as not to break frigate PvP)
A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-18 02:29:36 UTC
Look, instead of making armor like shield, why not give a DIFFERENT method altogether? I mean, it's very important that we keep these things very different from one another, or we'll wind up with a generic mess instead of ships that FEEL different.


I wouldn't mind seeing something armor like that boost speed at the cost of hit points and another that boost agility at the cost of armor resist when off, and does precisely the opposite when on. That would be fundimentally different, useful and give armor flavor. Hell slap the words "optimization" on techinobabble and you got yourself something that works.


Creativity is something to be encouraged here.
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#28 - 2012-08-18 02:51:05 UTC
well, thank you Paikis for at least not completely shooting my idea down. so 5% would still be a bad idea (let alone 7.5%), but also think about this: would anyone in their right mind that floats around in a battleship fit something that does all you've proposed and regens only 10 points? certainly not! again, this will need a considerable greater amount of thought yet.

now Soporific, I can't see losing hitpoints just to go fast (unless you blow off armor, which could have a cool/horrifying effect in game, if one-shot (more in a bit!)), but I can certainly see an agility boost/ resistance flipper! something that would, when passive, make your ship more agile but then when active removes power from it's stabilizers to help boost resistance mods.

Basically, it would give a boost to agility, but then lose that bonus and provides a bonus to armor resistance amps/nano plates/ damage controls/ etc like how a shield boost amp improves shield boosters. since it's improving your current resists rather than tacking on more resists, it bypasses the stacking penalties. it'd have to be a fairly small yet noticeable bonus though, or we're back to 7.5% hp/s helllands.

Now, for the other mod, I can see a high-slot module that, once activated, destroys all fitted plates, destroys itself when you dock, but while active provides your ship with a healthy speed boost. This module can't be de-activated once active, and you leave a debris field that damages other ships as they fly through it. The field deals damage based on the victim's velocity (so interceptors will be torn to shreds while battleships will wonder wtf was that scratch?) and disintegrates in the same time that salvage does. Lastly, anyone who actually salvages all of that nonsense gets free metal scraps.

there's some fun thoughts ;)

Where the science gets done

Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-08-18 05:40:14 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Counter proposal:

Train shield tanking!


First of all ALL of my toons fly caldari . . . huh wonder if I can shield tank both passively and actively. This idea was a curiosity regarding the idea of regenerative armor. Not to make it one giant blob of sameness because I assure you regenerating armor will NEVER be regenerating (passively) shields. And I would again like to bring it to the attention of anyone reading that SHIELD AND ARMOR tanks are similar in the basic way of armor repair units and shield boosters. huh Novel that and it is a point that no one likes to make because it basically invalidates the cries of oh no lets not make them the same.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-08-18 05:47:09 UTC
alternative:

instead of passive regen, organic hulls require biomass supplies to start regrowing their shells, like the ancillary shield booster
only instead of cap boosters, they'd be cans filled with slaves
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-08-18 05:47:46 UTC
I do wish to throw a curve ball into this discussion if that is alright with all assembled. Has anyone considered if the idea of a module is a little to overpowered maybe giving a flat bonus to certain ships intended only to armor tank that would regen a small amount of armor points every so often? I will not speculate on numbers but I think it would allow for some interesting possibilities.
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-08-18 05:48:16 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
alternative:

instead of passive regen, organic hulls require biomass supplies to start regrowing their shells, like the ancillary shield booster
only instead of cap boosters, they'd be cans filled with slaves


or finally giving a use to corpses Shocked
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-08-18 05:49:42 UTC
NO.
YOU USE SLAVES DAMNIT
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-08-18 05:53:26 UTC
Lol
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-08-18 06:01:37 UTC
tankus2 wrote:
ok, in seriousness with the OP, I have this to suggest:

it would be a low-slot module that has a limit of one per ship (like a damage control). Unlike a damage control, it won't have anything to do with shields and instead focus on both armor and hull.

Basically, it would passively grant 7.5% armor hitpoints/ 2% hull hitpoints per second while it is activated.

Going off the basis of shield's recharge being based off of a percentage instead of a flat rate, and that percentages make them effective regardless what ship they're fitted on (size wise) are the reasons why I've gone with them.

I'd also like to note that these percentages are basically a placeholder until a better one could be generated (perhaps though testing). I was at first going with 5% armor regen but that sounded too small (I also considered having it give a 1% or 0.5% shield regen bonus, but then thought that would make it too much like a damage control, and shields already get lots of help so it can just go away for now), though 10% sounded too large.

At any rate, what do ya'll think (and sorry for possible thread hijack, I just love ideas!)


Sadly requiring the need for activation would negate the entire intent.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-08-18 06:11:44 UTC
whether or not we need passive armor tanking is debatible but something does need to be done

Shield tanking options - buffer, active, speed, passive, ASB
Armor tanking options - Buffer, active,

you can't passive, you can kinda speed tank but any sort or real armor tank slows you down, and there is no ASB style armor module. the utility midslot argument isn't all that good, when you consider the fact that you have so many mids on shield tanked ships, and you can just throw on an invul LSEII and rig it for moar shield. the low slots for shield tanked ships only really need a DCU and the rest is damage mods or nanos.

I would much rather see a ASB style armor rep module, something that reps huge amounts of damage with cap boosters and has the reload times like asb. this would also be good because almost all active armor tanks need 2 reps to be remotely viable in PVE, PVP it would let active tanked ships have more action.
A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-08-18 06:59:02 UTC
Really, I want Armor Tankers to go MORE active than active tanks. There are fewer ways to use armor than shields (although I would classify speed tanks as something altogether different than either Armor and Shield tanking, and I would include ECM as a different kind of tank as well) which is a problem. The thing is that making Armor more like Shields shouldn't be the way forward. Instead of the passive shield tanks proclivity to, well, passivity, I would like to see options that require more action, more thought. I want people to ask themselves if they should turn off their tank altogether, or maybe switch scripts.


So, no, I don't like the notion of "blowing off" of plates via a high slot item. I think that the speed/hit point trade off is an effective one, and can readily be explained by shunting energy between the capacitor and the propulsion systems although the fluff is just fluff. I wouldn't mind something that can be modified with scripts, either. It doesn't even have to be a script that boosts just something tanky. I would love to see armor hardeners or active plates that will trade their primary function for ECCM or tracking bonuses instead.


I want to make people choose between tank and ultility in the heat of battle. I want people to turn off their tank in the middle of battle and have that be the right choice (like, to get under the guns of a larger adversary or to get the extra bit of tracking that makes the difference between hits and misses). If shields are fire and forget then armor should be all about the skill shot.
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-08-18 07:26:29 UTC
I should clarify as to the nature of my last response regarding it being active. I meant the module in question for a passive regen. Simply put if you have to activate then its basically a regular armor repper. That being said I do recognize that even with a passive ability active reppers would also be strongly desire. But imagine if you could offset the need for two reppers for armor tanks by having some passive armor repair and the active repair.
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-08-18 07:27:15 UTC
Kentren wrote:
I should clarify as to the nature of my last response regarding it being active. I meant the module in question for a passive regen. Simply put if you have to activate then its basically a regular armor repper. That being said I do recognize that even with a passive ability active reppers would also be strongly desire. But imagine if you could offset the need for two reppers for armor tanks by having some passive armor repair and the active repair.


Or the ability as I did suggest that the ships have the ability possibly added straight to armor specific ships.
Antal Marius
Allied Operations
Mechanicus Macabre Immortale
#40 - 2012-08-18 07:48:37 UTC
I like the idea of it being percentage based (5% max), but limited to one per hull like the DCU, and to negate the OP possibility, it also reduces the total armour EHP amount by a percent that is greater overall then the regen amount (Something like 10%?). In addition to the standard reduction in speed.