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1600mm Biomechanical Rolled Tungsten Plates
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2012-07-09 06:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
sabre906 wrote:
armor has little going for it atm, their [lack of] popularity speaks for itself. Action speaks louder than words.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but Amarr ships seem to be doing quite well PvP-wise. The penalties of armor tanking is of very little hinderence to them.

sabre906 wrote:
Shield people moan that armor is OP, while refusing to fly them. Same as how Winmatards are against any attempt to bring Gallante back into balance. Everyone looks out for number one.

The only reason shield people moan about armor tanking and refuse to fly it is because the ship line that can use armor tanking best (the Amarr) lacks the speed and flexibility that shield tankers are used to (also, slow armor tanks usually require that one commit to a battle while shield tanking doesn't, and this usually doesn't sit well with someone who is used to kiting or doesn't have much ISK).
As for Gallente... the problem is not armor tanking per se... it's not even their weapons system of choice either... it's combining to two together.

The systems by themselves are fine. The problem is how it various systems were paired off with one another (i.e. you can't give a ship a weapon system that needs to be in close range and then give it a defense system that slows it down).

How did you Veterans start?
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#22 - 2012-07-09 12:14:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Well this escalated quickly.

To make it even more obvious, What I tried to promote was the idea of armor tanks that sacrifices raw HP for some regeneration. So in effect, it would be like a shield tank with a bit more HP and a bit less regen. You still get the penalty of speed, agility and few lowslots for DPS mods. Why I suggested a set amount of HP regen pr second was because you can't abuse that the same way you can shield. A Thorax can fit 2 x 1600mm plates, but then it can't do much else. Now I'm not saying my numbers were the best by far, but it would be interesting with something in between raw armor buffer and raw shield buffer. And all you shieldtankers on your high horses and allknowing knowitalls. You can go on a roam and get fight upon fight upon fight and roam on. We can get one fight, and then we have to get back to station to rep armor. Yaaaaaaaay, go solo armor tank roam.... Bleh

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-07-09 12:42:34 UTC
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#24 - 2012-07-09 12:48:02 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.


You forgot the slaves. I want slaves too. Ones that work on shields.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#25 - 2012-07-09 12:57:15 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.


"If you want something different, I want something superior!"

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#26 - 2012-07-09 13:12:10 UTC
Also, you got the damn ASB. Shush on you

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#27 - 2012-07-09 13:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.


"If you want something different, I want something superior!"


Problem is you haven't asked for something 'different' you've asked for something from shield tanking. Regen is shield tanking's thing. Armor tanking's thing is bigger buffer.

Hannott Thanos wrote:
Also, you got the damn ASB. Shush on you


We all know that module is in line for a swing from the nerf bat.
Inspiration
#28 - 2012-07-09 14:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
Daria Meridian Carlile wrote:
40 hp/sec would be almost 60% of what a max skilled Large armor repairer II gives, but with no cap use and only 1/4th the powergrid usage.. Suffice to say, such a module would be overpowered even if it didn't give any armor.

Unless it only regenerated when not under fire. or when under fire it would regenerate at a slower rate.

It would however allow someone fitting an armor tank that is buffer armor and no rep to retreat when the target is dead or they are no longer being tackled and let their armor regen.


They should make the regenerative armor module like that, right now that module is barely useful in very limited and specific situations!

I am serious!

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-07-09 14:00:27 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.


As long as it comes with a speed penalty.Big smile
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#30 - 2012-07-09 14:17:53 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.


As long as it comes with a speed penalty.Big smile


You want regen with no penalties, why can't we get extra large shield extenders with no penalties. Also, the penalty would be signiture radius. FYI.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#31 - 2012-07-09 14:20:00 UTC
Paikis wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Sure you can have regenerating plates.
Just as soon as they introduce X-large shield extenders, that is.


As long as it comes with a speed penalty.Big smile


You want regen with no penalties, why can't we get extra large shield extenders with no penalties. Also, the penalty would be signiture radius. FYI.


I don't think you read the OP. The penalty was a substantial reduction in HP gained from the plate.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Inspiration
#32 - 2012-07-09 14:20:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Paikis wrote:
Get a shield tank if you want regen.

Every time i see a thread about armor tanking, it always seems to be someone asking for armor tanks to be as good as they are now, but also do what shield tanks do.


Funny you say that as shield tank mechanics in this game are virtually identical to armor tank mechanics! I played Perpetuum online for a while and that game does make shield something different from armor.

In that game shields are impenetrable buffers with basically uniform resists by means of an absorption ratio. You do not have shield HP, but any damage done to the shield is modified by the absorption ratio and what is left gets taken out of your capacitor. In a way, your capacitor is your buffer and as long as you can keep that up, you take no damage to armor.

In EVE, shields and armor both have hit points, they both have individual resist to the same specific types of damage. The difference is only in that shield can regenerate on their own and the module and ship specifics.

Anyway, I like the idea of very low auto regeneration without loosing a low slot. Of course the regeneration speed must really be slow and not be affected by anything (rigs, skills or otherwise). And i would like to see the same for drones that are docked, they should slowly get healed.

I am serious!

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#33 - 2012-07-09 14:26:30 UTC
Or, what if the regen was retardedly slow (like, almost nothing at all), and ships could specialize in regenerating armor. Swap the Myrmidons rep bonus for a 200% boost to plate regen pr. level. (so imagine how slow the regen is without ship bonus)

Just a thought. Hammer away at it.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#34 - 2012-08-17 22:17:38 UTC
Bump

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Selaya Ataru
Phalanx Solutions
#35 - 2012-08-17 22:40:32 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Get a shield tank if you want regen.


Thats just dumb, its not about a tactical regeneration that will keep your armor up against hostile fire, its just about a slow automatic regeneration that will for example allow the use of armor ships for solo/small scale roamings.

The point is: you cant use armorbuffer ships for a trip behind enemy lines without logistic support in any shape.

With a tiny regeneration added to an already existing module, you could.

Having to fit an extra module would make it useless again since you could just fit a small armor repairer that would likely give more hp/s and can be fit on all but the smallest of ships without getting fitting problems.

Actually this could be something added to Damage Control Systems, 3-5 points of armor and 3-5 points of hull regenerated per second or something like this.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-08-17 22:54:15 UTC
Can we stop thinking that homogenizing tanking is "balance?"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#37 - 2012-08-18 01:26:22 UTC
Hannot Thanos cast's "Thread Necromancy"

This is still a bad idea.
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#38 - 2012-08-18 02:05:20 UTC
Since this is on the front page again I guess I'll take the time to put in my two cents, and I'd like to congratulate Daria Meridian Carlile for doing some math and showing us how broken/unbroken this module is.

Given the example, the ships in question have a little less EHP in favor of getting plenty of regen, though I think that either the ships should differ to having less regen (not by much!) or having a tighter need for fittings.

Using the Megathron example, I'd feel that it should passivly regen something closer to 260 dps omni, which does limit how you'd fit it but still makes it a viable mission boat, as you'd rely on your armor reps less, perhaps using a smaller one so you can fit bigger guns.

Though given the 'contest' that has been dragging on for over a page and a half, I'm sure few people will actually take this thread seriously anymore...

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