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Semi Organic / Crystalline Armor Modules for Passive Armor Regen

Author
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-08-17 18:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kentren
So I was considering the possibility of a module designed to give armor tanks a passive regen like shield tanks. And to be honest to the naysayer I say it is both possible and easily pulled from the eve universe and fairly common in a ton of other unrelated scifi. The simplest option is a module that offers a semi organic design based off of rouge drones. Give it the ability to recover armor point at the cost of some extra cap cost (simply bu plugging it in not activating it kinda like the mwd's do but nothing so drastic). Obviously making it weak to certain types of damage is both necessary and easily explained due to organic systems being inherently weak to certain things like radiation (IE explosive dmg). It wouldn't even need to be organic. Crystals are grown and as such if it were designed properly it could conceivably be that as the armor is broken it uses the cap is has claimed at being plugged in to stimulate crystalline growth. However using a crystalline method would generally make it stronger then the organic version as the crystalline lattice could be enticed to grow stronger resistances as well as a regen capacity. I fully entertain legit responses intended to discuss the potential's and even possible drawback or things that might hinder this. I do not intend to tolerate trolls. Also fully acknowledge that the idea would need fleshing out by people with greater knowledge then I have.

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I did multiple searches on this forum for related topics prior to posting anything.
A Soporific
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-08-17 18:58:44 UTC
That would remove the specialization. Armor tanks have higher effective hit points and the ability to use utility modules with the drawback of being slow. Shield tanks have passive regeneration and the ability to use damage modules with the drawback of taking more damage from oversized opponents. This is how the two distinct techniques specialize and play differently.

To add passive regeneration for armor tanks (even as an optional add-on) would upset this balance signficantly and remove one of the key differences that make the techniques different. There NEEDS to be a distinction, and that line must remain sharp. I would rather see the addition of something else entirely than something the muddies the water between various tanking methodologies.
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-08-17 19:01:38 UTC
So your argument is that it brings it closer in nature to shield tanking and a such since it might possibly actually balance the two types you will have nothing to do with it?
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-08-17 19:20:17 UTC
Sounds workable. Maybe not as as a way of actually tanking incoming DPS as with a passive shield Drake, but more as a way of not needing to dock and rep after every fight while flying an armor ship.

This would be especially useful in FW or Null, where dockable stations can be many jumps away.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#5 - 2012-08-17 19:21:35 UTC
Kentren wrote:
So your argument is that it brings it closer in nature to shield tanking and a such since it might possibly actually balance the two types you will have nothing to do with it?

I'd say the argument is it would remove some of the uniqueness from the two tanking philosophies.

Armor = slow, tough, more utility mids, and needs active or external reps
Shield = large sig radius, agile, more upgrade lows, more vulnerable to larger weapons

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-08-17 19:22:56 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Kentren wrote:
So your argument is that it brings it closer in nature to shield tanking and a such since it might possibly actually balance the two types you will have nothing to do with it?

I'd say the argument is it would remove some of the uniqueness from the two tanking philosophies.

Armor = slow, tough, more utility mids, and needs active or external reps
Shield = large sig radius, agile, more upgrade lows, more vulnerable to larger weapons



See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it?
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#7 - 2012-08-17 19:24:20 UTC
Now that I think about it, just shove a small armor repairer in one of your low slots. In between fights, you can slowly "regen" your armor, as the OP requests.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-08-17 19:25:02 UTC
I like this idea.

In a more specific way, I think it should lower your overall armor HP amount by some percentage, simultaneously lowering the overall mass amount due to armor by a slightly larger percentage, so that if you go for a passive armor tank, your are able to be faster, but are more susceptible to alpha.

Also, I like the reduction to capacitor capacity as a drawback.

I can see this being used to great effect in a great many situations.

Also, the explosive resist is already the lowest on armor so I don't see a need to alter that.

This idea should also be matched up with rigs that increase your armor regeneration rate at the expense of signature radius (same drawback as the shield regen) and there should be a mid slot that reduces the armor regen (similar to the low slot shield regen module).

Basically, this would allow an armor tanked ship to sacrifice some of their total EHP and their total Capacitor to have a passive regen tank and a more maneuverable ship.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#9 - 2012-08-17 19:25:14 UTC
Kentren wrote:
See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it?

The point is, passive regen is a trait of shields. Trying to have one tank style mimic the other dilutes them both. Let them be unique.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-08-17 19:29:51 UTC
I have to say if you always stick to traditional things you gonna miss out. This alteration is not to usurp the unique nature of shield tanking its intend to offer a neat optional ability to the armor tanking.
Juuce Box
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-08-17 19:31:36 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Now that I think about it, just shove a small armor repairer in one of your low slots. In between fights, you can slowly "regen" your armor, as the OP requests.




Sooo, what your saying is you will trade a low slot to fit a small armor repper...Do you play eve just curious
Kentren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-08-17 19:32:24 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Kentren wrote:
See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it?

The point is, passive regen is a trait of shields. Trying to have one tank style mimic the other dilutes them both. Let them be unique.


Oh but wait inst the idea of a shield booster mimicking the idea of a armor repper? Or are we overlooking that because its already in the game?
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-08-17 19:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Kentren wrote:
See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it?

The point is, passive regen is a trait of shields. Trying to have one tank style mimic the other dilutes them both. Let them be unique.


Armor tanking is active, uses active armor repping, takes cap, has rigs and modules that increase their power.

Shield tanking can be active by using active reppers, taking cap, and has rigs and modules to increase their power...shield tanking can ALSO be passive and regenerate over time.

Armor can't do that last one.

So its not that they are different, its that they are not balanced.

See how that is.

So either remove active shield tanking (please GOD don't really do that) or add passive armor tanking (yea...do that)

Buffer tank is a totally different kind of tanking, and is balanced fine.

EDIT: I also happen to think that hull tanking should be more viable than it is...but that is a different topic all together.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#14 - 2012-08-17 20:12:43 UTC
Here is a thought on how to balance this idea.

Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function.
Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead.
At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible.

What is it using this for, the power it draws from shields? All we know is this is not the active armor repper. So why not let it work differently too?
As a passive armor regen, It works by temporarily liquefying the armor section and remolding it to be intact.
(Missing material is accounted for in the same way an armor repper replaces missing material)
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#15 - 2012-08-17 20:34:29 UTC
Juuce Box wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Now that I think about it, just shove a small armor repairer in one of your low slots. In between fights, you can slowly "regen" your armor, as the OP requests.


Sooo, what your saying is you will trade a low slot to fit a small armor repper...Do you play eve just curious


Read what the OP suggests again and perhaps you'll understand what I was saying.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#16 - 2012-08-17 20:39:06 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Here is a thought on how to balance this idea.

Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function.
Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead.
At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible.


Armor repper and capacitor flux coils?

All the mods suggested so far exist, just not *quite* in the specified form. An undersized armor rep has the same effect as the proposed passive armor regen.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-08-17 20:41:37 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Here is a thought on how to balance this idea.

Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function.
Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead.
At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible.


Armor repper and capacitor flux coils?

All the mods suggested so far exist, just not *quite* in the specified form. An undersized armor rep has the same effect as the proposed passive armor regen.


No they don't.

Cause a passive armor regen would work even while you had ZERO capacitor the same way passive shield regen does.
And there would be a PEAK regen just like shields, so a small armor repper would not do the same thing.

I think you don't understand how passive shield regen works....
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#18 - 2012-08-17 20:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Griffin Omanid
I don´t really know what i should think about this idea. The only thing i would like to have is something that regenerate my armor a bit when it is only damaged below 1%, in all the other cases a repair modul should still be fitted.

Nikk Narrel wrote:
Here is a thought on how to balance this idea.

Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function.
Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead.
At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible.

What is it using this for, the power it draws from shields? All we know is this is not the active armor repper. So why not let it work differently too?
As a passive armor regen, It works by temporarily liquefying the armor section and remolding it to be intact.
(Missing material is accounted for in the same way an armor repper replaces missing material)


I think this would be the best idea, allthough I would make it so that it reduces your shield while repairing your armor. For example every second you loose 3-4 shield HP and gain 1 armor HP, because of your shield regeneration of average 4 HP/s in medium Vessels. Its maybe also be aproved by the OP cause you´ll loose (as armor tanker) nearly all of you passive shield tanking but gain regeneration in your with good resistance fitted armor tank.

Edit: Maybe the regeneration should also be linear instead of the changing dependency by shield and capacitor (I think it is a time derivation of a suturation funktion).

But there is still the fact that I think an armor tanker should depend on active tanking and/or good logistics, because they got the higher EHP. So there should be no way that you can get the same amount of regeneration like a low skill shield tanker.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#19 - 2012-08-17 22:17:24 UTC
I made a thread about this subject a while back. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130201

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-08-17 22:26:52 UTC
Organic? Eeeeeww....

How about armoured plating with a layer of regenerating nano-drones/bots instead?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

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