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afk cloaking ??
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#21 - 2011-10-12 20:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
cvcdsas wrote:
posted with alt for obvious reasons

yeah, obvious no balls to attract more afk cloaker to your system

cvcdsas wrote:
Could CCP please consider a change in cloaking mechanisms to reduce AFK cloaking.

I have no issues with people being able to be cloaked / grief people while they are active in game. But AFK cloaking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve.

why should afking in a properly prepared ship have any risks?

cvcdsas wrote:
If cloaking were changed so that we had to manually reactivate the cloak ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock with a cloaky in system i might get hot dropped why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone to AFK grief.

go back to high sec, there is no afk cloaking



Sloppyslug wrote:

Yes in Null Sec where you would expect someone to be able to have full control over their own system.

there is no "your own system", no space is exclusively for you.

There is no reason why you should have the ability to blob/chase people out of any system in eve, if he is prepared well (docked, cloaked).
Noone ever has brought valid reasons for this, there is no need for more safety in eve 0.0, there is alrady too much of it.
Yes, afk cloaker on safe is safe but he is gaining nothing from that as he is afk, people crying for afk cloak counters want safety for their ratting activities, for making ISK and whatever in full safety. This is not a valid reason.
Sloppyslug
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-12 20:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sloppyslug
Mag's wrote:
Sloppyslug wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Sloppyslug wrote:
Ok and then I can kill you right? That is a counter. There is no counter for the cloak.
Well if I warp off after you've put it into reinforced then no and no one with any sense logs off in a pos in case it does get zapped while you are away. I'm not sure what argument you think you have here.

Oh and cloaks do have a counter and they also have massive drawbacks when activated.


You're getting off topic to what im saying, this is directed to safe spot afk cloaking and spying when needed.

People use HICS for a reason. There is a counter, there is a counter to all of what your saying, please tell me the counter for finding someone afk, in a random safe spot cloaked.
You decide you could kill me on a whim inside a pos shield, sorry you got it wrong and went off topic. A hic is not a counter to me sitting safe inside a pos shield, again what argument do you think you have here?

Why should you need to find someone AFK in a safe spot? The fact you already know he's in the system, is a massive intel advantage.


Ok your ability to try and bring up every obvious reason is baffling.

First I was answering Danikas message on the comparison to POS and afk cloak counters, i'm sorry if you felt you were a part of that.

The HIC was in response to you saying there was no counter to someone sitting safe in a POS warping away from being in the POS, just showing you there was a counter.

Because it stops you performing strategic operations. The unknown gives you a massive tactical advantage, Internal spys and scouting is how it should be leaked. Much like in modern warfare, you countinue to develop counters to everything which gives others an advantage over you.

If you have not noticed eve is based on counters upon counters, it is one of the reasons it is so interesting.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#23 - 2011-10-12 20:49:12 UTC
Sloppyslug wrote:

If you have not noticed eve is based on counters upon counters, it is one of the reasons it is so interesting.


exactly, this is why people sit afk in some systems, for diminishing the information intel is giving away for your advantage. There is no other counter against local.
Sloppyslug
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-12 20:52:55 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Sloppyslug wrote:

If you have not noticed eve is based on counters upon counters, it is one of the reasons it is so interesting.


exactly, this is why people sit afk in some systems, for diminishing the information intel is giving away for your advantage. There is no other counter against local.


This is another good point for Null Sec.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2011-10-12 21:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Sloppyslug wrote:


Ok your ability to try and bring up every obvious reason is baffling.

First I was answering Danikas message on the comparison to POS and afk cloak counters, i'm sorry if you felt you were a part of that.

The HIC was in response to you saying there was no counter to someone sitting save in a POS warping away from being in the POS, just showing you there was a counter.
But you don't have an argument, you still can't kill me. As far as a HIC is concerned, not sure just how many hics continue to stop people warping during DT. But if you think you could hold me during the full reinforced period and then pop my ship, then you go for it.

Also I never said or indicated I was a part of the original discussion, I was merely pointing out you were wrong and have no argument other than 'what if'.

Sloppyslug wrote:
Because it stops you performing strategic operations. The unknown gives you a massive tactical advantage, Internal spys and scouting is how it should be leaked. Much like in modern warfare, you countinue to develop counters to everything which gives others an advantage over you.

If you have not noticed eve is based on counters upon counters, it is one of the reasons it is so interesting.
Why shouldn't I be allowed to perform strategic ops? After all that's one of the reasons the 'Covert Ops' ships were made.

There is a counter to cloaking, but what you are asking for is extra power on top of the already powerful local intel tool. That is not a balanced approach.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2011-10-12 21:17:50 UTC
Sloppyslug wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Sloppyslug wrote:
Mag's wrote:

Actually you posted ideas that nerfs cloaking.


Yes in Null Sec where you would expect someone to be able to have full control over their own system. There needs to be a counter, with my idea it would be a massivly expensive counter, which would take time and effort, and be a risk to the titan also. Would limit the ships use also, to being one niche.


A counter to what exactly? A counter to your own cowardice? A counter to someone who isn't actually doing anything to anyone?

Why, exactly, is it a bad thing for me to be able to cloak up in your system and go afk, but a good thing for you to be able to dock or POS up and go afk? We're both as invulnerable as the other, and we both have the same effect on eachother's gameplay, IE we're a name in local that you can't find. That's it. Neither of us can do anything to the other without losing our invulnerability.


What you talking about lol? I just remove anti-cyno, and then drop a super cap fleet on that pos and take it down, then kill you. how do i uncloak you and kill you?


So, you bring in a large subcap fleet, then a large supercap fleet, and you still get to wait a day? Yeah, that's a wonderful counter right there.

How about a 23.5 hour cycle timer on cloaks? That's as effective a counter to AFK cloaking as the one you just gave to hiding in a POS is :)
Sloppyslug
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-10-12 21:24:37 UTC
So little faith in POS bashing :)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#28 - 2011-10-12 21:37:45 UTC
Sloppyslug wrote:
So little faith in POS bashing :)
Nah, it's more of an understanding of game mechanics tbh.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Sloppyslug
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-10-12 21:51:00 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Sloppyslug wrote:
So little faith in POS bashing :)
Nah, it's more of an understanding of game mechanics tbh.


Just lol, your thought of its as impossible to take down a POS as it is to find a cloaked frig in billions M^3 space. But ofc you will know so much better than me that there is no counter to POS', just as random SP cloaked frigs.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2011-10-12 21:53:15 UTC
Sloppyslug wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Sloppyslug wrote:
So little faith in POS bashing :)
Nah, it's more of an understanding of game mechanics tbh.


Just lol, your thought of its as impossible to take down a POS as it is to find a cloaked frig in billions M^3 space. But ofc you will know so much better than me that there is no counter to POS', just as random SP cloaked frigs.


It is impossible for me, as a random solo red in your system, to take down a POS you are hiding in, or a station you are hiding in, just as it is impossible for you to find me if I cloak up.

Sure, it's possible to kill a POS, but not instantly. You'll be coming back tomorrow if it's stronted.
Probebly Afk Cloaking
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-10-13 04:07:22 UTC
Working as intended.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#32 - 2011-10-13 07:57:38 UTC
Sloppyslug wrote:
There is a counter, there is a counter to all of what your saying, please tell me the counter for finding someone afk, in a random safe spot cloaked.


Tell me, why exactly would you need a counter "for finding someone afk," if they're, you know, "afk?"

Here, an even better question for you: how do you plan to distinguish between afk cloakers, and players who cloak in your system and refuse to say anything?

I'll agree to support a gameplay mechanic that lets you turn off peoples' cloaks in "your" system, when you agree to support a gameplay mechanic that lets others turn off peoples' ability to collect rat bounties. We can call the modules "Big Brother Array" and "Grindosural System Jammer," respectively.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#33 - 2011-10-13 08:25:39 UTC
cvcdsas wrote:
posted with alt for obvious reasons

Could CCP please consider a change in cloaking mechanisms to reduce AFK cloaking.

I have no issues with people being able to be cloaked / grief people while they are active in game. But AFK cloaking for 23.5 hours per days seems to be the only risk free activity in eve. I hear constantly that even high sec is not to be considered safe only safer so find it difficult to understand which this particular activity is completely risk free.

If cloaking were changed so that we had to manually reactivate the cloak ever 30 minutes or even every hour it would at least give some risk. I accept that everytime i undock with a cloaky in system i might get hot dropped why should there be absolutely no risk 23.5 hours per day for someone to AFK grief.




Posting with my main because i am not a crybaby coward.

So you want a cloaker to have his cloak dropped every 30mins...... mainly because you are either too lazy to organise a trap for him, or are scared of someone who isnt there???

Well how about this, you are kicked from your station or POS into space every 30 mins.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Lamthara Lachesis
Emporio Amarr
#34 - 2011-10-13 10:26:25 UTC
someone proposed that the cloaking system should consume the capacitor so that after x minutes - if you don't do anything - you simply decloak.

If you're not afk you warp to a safe spot... and reload your capacitor... if you're afk, you're probed and then killed.

Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2011-10-13 10:32:27 UTC
Lamthara Lachesis wrote:
Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work
It would also break cloaking.

The real question remains: why is AFK cloaking a problem that needs to be solved?
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-10-13 10:35:00 UTC
Lamthara Lachesis wrote:
someone proposed that the cloaking system should consume the capacitor so that after x minutes - if you don't do anything - you simply decloak.

If you're not afk you warp to a safe spot... and reload your capacitor... if you're afk, you're probed and then killed.

Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work



Why mess with something that is not broken?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#37 - 2011-10-13 10:56:41 UTC
Lamthara Lachesis wrote:
someone proposed that the cloaking system should consume the capacitor so that after x minutes - if you don't do anything - you simply decloak.

If you're not afk you warp to a safe spot... and reload your capacitor... if you're afk, you're probed and then killed.

Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work



yeah yeah, there are many "ideas", but WHY??
try to provide a reasoning first, why is something broken.

I do not know any valid reason why one should not be able to stay in any part of the space, without locals be able to blob him out for ratting safety.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#38 - 2011-10-13 12:01:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lamthara Lachesis wrote:
Seems to me an easy implementation and could actually work
It would also break cloaking.

The real question remains: why is AFK cloaking a problem that needs to be solved?


Because you paid billions of upgrading sov to be turned useless because you cannot use the system on anything useful when there's some fagget sitting 23/7 with a cloaky rapier.

And if AFK cloaker isn't a complete imbecile you never get rid of him, simple as that, there is no mechanic to stop getting your mining fleet dead in seconds either.
Ofc you could have your hulks sitting with rorqual / orca + guards on belt 23/7 and we all know how well that would work when your hulks are dying even from a random BS spawn.
So main issue here is that you lose 100milions of worth isk to something you cannot counter against with any meaningful way.

Simply add in AFK timer and everyone is happy but that wouldn't go too well since all of you cloaker alt owners in this thread would actually have to be on keyboard during the day.

And if you think that there is a problem that they know you're active, well it just means that you have be as much on keyboard as they do for your so called asset denial.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#39 - 2011-10-13 12:23:54 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Simply add in AFK timer and everyone is happy but that wouldn't go too well since all of you cloaker alt owners in this thread would actually have to be on keyboard during the day.

And if you think that there is a problem that they know you're active, well it just means that you have be as much on keyboard as they do for your so called asset denial.



No, this severely impacts wormholes in a negative way, where intel gathering requires you to be passively cloaked off an enemy pos for hours on end, for sometimes days on end.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#40 - 2011-10-13 12:26:35 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Because you paid billions of upgrading sov to be turned useless because you cannot use the system on anything useful when there's some fagget sitting 23/7 with a cloaky rapier.
It's not his fault that you choose not to use the system.
Quote:
So main issue here is that you lose 100milions of worth isk to something you cannot counter against with any meaningful way.
Since you lose it because you choose to, the counter is fairly obvious: choose not to.

So, really, why is AFK cloaking a problem that needs to be solved?