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Why Off Grid booster nerf won't happen (ever) or won't be what you think

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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#301 - 2012-08-16 23:35:10 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:


Personally I don't care if OGBs exist or not. The only thing I care about (and most of the pro-ogb pilots here) is the changes effect on small gang pvp. If CCP can somehow fix this problem without buffing blobs then I'd be happy with it.

Even if they removed boosting entirely I'd be cool. But we both know that is very unlikely.

I don't particularly like boosting at all, but if CCP is going to go forward with this balancing of boosting then I think they should do something along the lines of my OP. Unless there is a better idea that anybody has which doesn't give another unneeded buff to blobs then I won't change my mind and I'll keep posting until my keyboard turns to dust (514).



Any numbers limit you put on ingame fleets will easily be circumvented breaking down the fleet into multiple small gangs, neglecting any disadaventage using OOG comms. Hence your proposal is naive and futile.

Nevertheless, offgrid boosting hurts the smallest guy first and is flat out a wrong and abusive mechanic. I can live with a complete removal of any gangboosts, but offgrid boosting has to die.


(And in case I didn't mention it before, I have 2 characters with close to perfect leadership skills (never really bothered with information warfare links), CS V and flying multiple T3s with all subsystems @ V).


If they want to have a separate tengu/loki for each 5 pilots in their entire fleet they can be my guest.

Nobody is going to do that, and if they do it will be a rare one time event.

Saying that my idea is bad because one could theoretically do something like this if they really wanted to isn't a good argument.

At least my solution is makes it so they need 20 tengus to boost a fleet instead of just one.

Do you have a better solution? preferably one that CCP would be willing to do? I'd love for boosts to just disappear altogether, but we both know that won't happen.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#302 - 2012-08-16 23:38:12 UTC
it will happen, just like this idiotic highsec flagging system they want to bring in so the wow community can feel safe. Dramatize the thing enough, make it sound much worse than it is, an CCP will fold EVERY SINGLE TIME.....They know this, an even mission runners have caught onto the fact now that CCP will bend over backwards if you just make enough of a stink on forums. had 2 guys in Scope yesterday said ninjas should be banned for life an they wanted it like miners where they cant be effected by "griefers"...

SO the off grid booster nerf.... yer, it's coming.

For most of us, its never been an issue, but the minority who dont like it, an want things all cuddles an flowers, will make it sound much more dramatic.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2012-08-16 23:41:26 UTC
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#304 - 2012-08-16 23:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Melodee619 wrote:
it will happen, just like this idiotic highsec flagging system they want to bring in so the wow community can feel safe. Dramatize the thing enough, make it sound much worse than it is, an CCP will fold EVERY SINGLE TIME.....They know this, an even mission runners have caught onto the fact now that CCP will bend over backwards if you just make enough of a stink on forums. had 2 guys in Scope yesterday said ninjas should be banned for life an they wanted it like miners where they cant be effected by "griefers"...

SO the off grid booster nerf.... yer, it's coming.

For most of us, its never been an issue, but the minority who dont like it, an want things all cuddles an flowers, will make it sound much more dramatic.


If you are trying to call us carebears then you are so ignorant to the issue that I'm astounded. Straight


Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'm sure they don't even know what EvE is .
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#305 - 2012-08-16 23:44:16 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'd say that 80% of the time that Eve comes up in game design discussions, the WOW players are like "WTF, those guys are ******* nuts and all of them should be locked up under the jail..."

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#306 - 2012-08-16 23:45:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'd say that 80% of the time that Eve comes up in game design discussions, the WOW players are like "WTF, those guys are ******* nuts and all of them should be locked up under the jail..."

-Liang


You sure they know what we even are? I'm going to go search WoW forums to see what they think of us.

If I don't make it back.... Any pro-ogb warrior can have my assets. Wish me luck.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#307 - 2012-08-16 23:49:09 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:

You sure they know what we even are? I'm going to go search WoW forums to see what they think of us.

If I don't make it back.... Any pro-ogb warrior can have my assets. Wish me luck.


I'd say we're not a regular topic of conversation, but Eve definitely comes up in our game design discussions at work.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#308 - 2012-08-16 23:51:03 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'd say that 80% of the time that Eve comes up in game design discussions, the WOW players are like "WTF, those guys are ******* nuts and all of them should be locked up under the jail..."

-Liang


You sure they know what we even are? I'm going to go search WoW forums to see what they think of us.

If I don't make it back.... Any pro-ogb warrior can have my assets. Wish me luck.


Good luck man, you can feel your IQ slowly killing itself in objection to being subjected to the crap on those forums. It makes crime an punishment look intelligent. (Even SA forums are not as brain dead as wow's)
As for calling people "carebears", no I dont. carebears are just a silly notion made up some idiot. But I do think you new exactly what you were getting when you signed up to EVE. Demanding it be changed to suit your obliviously "safer" idea of what EVE should be is just flat out stupid.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#309 - 2012-08-16 23:53:56 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:

As for calling people "carebears", no I dont. carebears are just a silly notion made up some idiot. But I do think you new exactly what you were getting when you signed up to EVE. Demanding it be changed to suit your obliviously "safer" idea of what EVE should be is just flat out stupid.


Are we even talking about the same topic here?
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#310 - 2012-08-17 00:03:29 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

I'm sure there's a lot of things that could be better. Why are you so dead set on ruining the play style that I want to have?



You'e also misinterpreting my intent - I'm all for any advantage for small gangs, but offgrid boosting simply is the wrong way.


Maybe you've seen the fubared offgrid, warpcore stabbed, interdiction nullified cov ops cloaked 4 link 'unproabable' probing bonused 4-link tengu fit I posted in the other thread. I have two characters capable of flying that (well - both have caldari cruiser V, but I'd just need ~25 days to train all tengu subsystems to V which I didn't thus far because I hate Tengus), yet I don't because it would be abhorrently lame.

However, I know people do and many more are training alts for that purpose and quite frankly, they shouldn't exist.

I have a noob T1 frig alt @ ~20 mill SP I use for ***** and giggles, I don't mind KB stats and considering the ship that alt flies, have literally unlimited ressources and know how to avoid blobs, but finding a non-boosted opponent can be frustrating. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for a real beginner. 
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#311 - 2012-08-17 00:14:02 UTC
Your sole argument is "because I would unsub".

And your suggestions are basically to nerf boosting in different ways, so, I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make?

Then at the end you say "stop thinking about your play style" yet half your idea is clearly geared up to your play style.... off-grid boosting is fine so long as its just for a small number of players and after that you are a "noob blobber" and must use a CS on-grid. What?

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#312 - 2012-08-17 00:17:46 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:

As for calling people "carebears", no I dont. carebears are just a silly notion made up some idiot. But I do think you new exactly what you were getting when you signed up to EVE. Demanding it be changed to suit your obliviously "safer" idea of what EVE should be is just flat out stupid.


Are we even talking about the same topic here?

I was responding to a post back up the page
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#313 - 2012-08-17 00:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Wacktopia wrote:
Your sole argument is "because I would unsub".

And your suggestions are basically to nerf boosting in different ways, so, I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make?

Then at the end you say "stop thinking about your play style" yet half your idea is clearly geared up to your play style.... off-grid boosting is fine so long as its just for a small number of players and after that you are a "noob blobber" and must use a CS on-grid. What?


I'll break it into bite sized pieces for you.

With T3s only being able to boost small gangs, the command ships will be the only real choice for larger fleets. Then the command ship pilots who whine about not being able to use their ships because of T3s being better won't have that problem anymore. And they will be happy. Ok?

Following that change, the small gangs will also be happy because they can still use their T3s to stay competitive with big blobs that run links (which any good blob should). Ok?

Both parties are happy, the only unhappy people are the ones that don't have links or don't know anybody that do. But nothing can be done about them because CCP would have to remove boosting altogether to make them happy. Which probably won't happen.

And I said that if anybody thinks that blobs should be the only ones to be able to effectively run fleet boost that they are "blobbing noobs". IE the notion to remove OGBs all together without giving small gangs a choice but to fly expensive command ships in battle. Which basically screws small gangs over, hard.

If you still don't get it I sadly can't help you.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#314 - 2012-08-17 00:22:52 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

I'm sure there's a lot of things that could be better. Why are you so dead set on ruining the play style that I want to have?



You'e also misinterpreting my intent - I'm all for any advantage for small gangs, but offgrid boosting simply is the wrong way.


Maybe you've seen the fubared offgrid, warpcore stabbed, interdiction nullified cov ops cloaked 4 link 'unproabable' probing bonused 4-link tengu fit I posted in the other thread. I have two characters capable of flying that (well - both have caldari cruiser V, but I'd just need ~25 days to train all tengu subsystems to V which I didn't thus far because I hate Tengus), yet I don't because it would be abhorrently lame.

However, I know people do and many more are training alts for that purpose and quite frankly, they shouldn't exist.

I have a noob T1 frig alt @ ~20 mill SP I use for ***** and giggles, I don't mind KB stats and considering the ship that alt flies, have literally unlimited ressources and know how to avoid blobs, but finding a non-boosted opponent can be frustrating. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for a real beginner.


if I am readning this right, you want 1v1 "fair" fights ?... boosting is just fine as it is. You should remember that there is no such thing as 1v1 an "fair" fights. You do what it takes to win no matter what, end always justifys the means so to speak.

EG...
If I had to bridge 15 Avatars to kill your one vexor, I would do it because it means winning....
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#315 - 2012-08-17 00:32:34 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

I'm sure there's a lot of things that could be better. Why are you so dead set on ruining the play style that I want to have?



You'e also misinterpreting my intent - I'm all for any advantage for small gangs, but offgrid boosting simply is the wrong way.


Maybe you've seen the fubared offgrid, warpcore stabbed, interdiction nullified cov ops cloaked 4 link 'unproabable' probing bonused 4-link tengu fit I posted in the other thread. I have two characters capable of flying that (well - both have caldari cruiser V, but I'd just need ~25 days to train all tengu subsystems to V which I didn't thus far because I hate Tengus), yet I don't because it would be abhorrently lame.

However, I know people do and many more are training alts for that purpose and quite frankly, they shouldn't exist.

I have a noob T1 frig alt @ ~20 mill SP I use for ***** and giggles, I don't mind KB stats and considering the ship that alt flies, have literally unlimited ressources and know how to avoid blobs, but finding a non-boosted opponent can be frustrating. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for a real beginner.


if I am readning this right, you want 1v1 "fair" fights ?... boosting is just fine as it is. You should remember that there is no such thing as 1v1 an "fair" fights. You do what it takes to win no matter what, end always justifys the means so to speak.

EG...
If I had to bridge 15 Avatars to kill your one vexor, I would do it because it means winning....


Wait what? I thought you were against boosting, but now you are for it?

wat da fuq Question
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#316 - 2012-08-17 00:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Melodee619 wrote:


if I am readning this right, you want 1v1 "fair" fights ?... boosting is just fine as it is. You should remember that there is no such thing as 1v1 an "fair" fights. You do what it takes to win no matter what, end always justifys the means so to speak.

EG...
If I had to bridge 15 Avatars to kill your one vexor, I would do it because it means winning....



No - you're reading this entirely wrong. Eve is about getting the other guy engaged in an unfair fight.

Offgrid boosting however makes that too easy, so any rich noob can do it and it renders first attempts at solo and small gang pvp extremely frusrtrating for new players.

It just adds an option for carebears who are trying to pvp to make it relatively risk free, to discourage the real daring noob.


Personally, I'd actually appreciate it if you drop 15 avatars on my vexor, because I'd just call pandemic-phone (although it may not work, because you dropping 15 avatars on me may mean you actually are the lady answering pandemic-phone ;) - besides I'd still call it a victory because your fuel cost would have been way higher than the cost of my ship - so no - you're not the lady answeing pandemic-phone).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Ensign X
#317 - 2012-08-17 00:39:23 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'm pretty sure they're too busy enjoying the most popular MMO in the history of MMOs to give a **** about what some whiny space-douches think. Smile
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#318 - 2012-08-17 00:41:07 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'm pretty sure they're too busy enjoying the most popular MMO in the history of MMOs to give a **** about what some whiny space-douches think. Smile


Why is your avatar so... sideways?
Ensign X
#319 - 2012-08-17 00:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ensign X
Diesel47 wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Does the WoW community cry about EVE players this much?


I'm pretty sure they're too busy enjoying the most popular MMO in the history of MMOs to give a **** about what some whiny space-douches think. Smile


Why is your avatar so... sideways?


It makes it easier to read the posts when you're looking at them? P

How can you read the forums when your avatar is looking the completely wrong way?

edit: You're asking me about my avatar when just above my previous post sits the most hideous space-creature in all of EVE?
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#320 - 2012-08-17 00:45:17 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
Your sole argument is "because I would unsub".

And your suggestions are basically to nerf boosting in different ways, so, I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make?

Then at the end you say "stop thinking about your play style" yet half your idea is clearly geared up to your play style.... off-grid boosting is fine so long as its just for a small number of players and after that you are a "noob blobber" and must use a CS on-grid. What?


I'll break it into bite sized pieces for you.

With T3s only being able to boost small gangs, the command ships will be the only real choice for larger fleets. Then the command ship pilots who whine about not being able to use their ships because of T3s being better won't have that problem anymore. And they will be happy. Ok?

Following that change, the small gangs will also be happy because they can still use their T3s to stay competitive with big blobs that run links (which any good blob should). Ok?

Both parties are happy, the only unhappy people are the ones that don't have links or don't know anybody that do. But nothing can be done about them because CCP would have to remove boosting altogether to make them happy. Which probably won't happen.

And I said that if anybody thinks that blobs should be the only ones to be able to effectively run fleet boost that they are "blobbing noobs". IE the notion to remove OGBs all together without giving small gangs a choice but to fly expensive command ships in battle. Which basically screws small gangs over, hard.

If you still don't get it I sadly can't help you.



No, I get it. I just think you're trying to solve the problem in the wrong way, which is to ...

a) threaten to quit if CCP don't listen to your ideas

b) suggest a game mechanic that limits access based upon an arbitrary factor decided by you

Your logic is a bit like this... "My small gang only has one Titan but that big blob over there has100 Titans so I think that Titans should only be available to small gangs to give small gangs a chance".

So, what arbitrary gang size are you suggesting will be "allowed" to use a T3 and what size gang will be limited to the lowly command ship? I'd be genuinely interested to know you're answer to this. What number?

Quote:
Then the command ship pilots who whine about not being able to use their ships because of T3s being better won't have that problem anymore. And they will be happy. Ok?


Which CS pilots are these? CS Pilots who can't train up and fly a T3 in a matter of weeks if they wanted to? Or the CS pilots who don't know when a CS is actually as much or more use than a T3 in a particular gang type?

Quote:
the only unhappy people are the ones that don't have links or don't know anybody that do.


Wait, I thought the unhappy people were those people with links but who only had a command ship but couldn't train up or fly a T3 for some reason?

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com