These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Escort Carriers; How could we make them NOT game breaking?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2012-08-16 16:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Anslo wrote:
The purpose would be to provide a goal for high sec people and corps to obtain.
Plenty of those exist already.

Quote:
In lowsec it could add a new dimension of subterfuge by trying to move small, nimble and powerful escort carriers around as a means of alpha striking a system, keeping the enemy busy, and popping a cyno to get their mates in.
How would it be new in any way?

Quote:
This ship's role could fill the role of flag ship or lead ship in highsec engagements much like people rally around their capital ships in low and nul.
I think you're slightly confused about how capships are used… They are logistics ships (in both senses of the word) and damage platforms. The reason people “rally around them” is because they die awfully quick without proper support.

If people want to experience cap warfare, there is a place for them where that's available. If they don't want to go there, then they don't get to experience it. It's a simple choice, really.

Cap ships are not allowed in highsec for a reason — it's an escalation of force and protection that requires either similar strength or a bit of time to overcome. If you want something that is carrier-like in highsec, there's the Orca and the Dominix. If you want something that's carrier-like in lowsec, there are carriers. This is why I'm asking: what purpose would it serve that is not already covered by other ships? So far, there doesn't seem to be one.

None of what you've listed is a useful or unique function.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#22 - 2012-08-16 16:32:26 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Anslo, stop being bad. There is already a huge thread in the features and ideas forum about this. It doesn't need a copy here in GD.


It's an old dead thread as far as I can see.



So that gives you the right to poast in the wrong forum?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-08-16 16:32:43 UTC
You should rename your corp as "Beating a Dead Black Horse Enterprises-International".
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#24 - 2012-08-16 16:34:33 UTC
I bought an Escort Carrier yesterday In Jita. i forget the name, it was someting like Dominio, Domingo, something like that, my memory is bad.

When I wanna play with capital ships, I got to the very special place called NOT-HIGH-SEC. It's a magical place where all sorts of things can happen....

Did I break any sarcasm meters here? I sure hope so.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#25 - 2012-08-16 16:42:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I bought an Escort Carrier yesterday In Jita. i forget the name, it was someting like Dominio, Domingo, something like that, my memory is bad.

When I wanna play with capital ships, I got to the very special place called NOT-HIGH-SEC. It's a magical place where all sorts of things can happen....

Did I break any sarcasm meters here? I sure hope so.


what time do you generally go to this "not hisec" place?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-08-16 16:44:12 UTC
Topic moved from General Discussion to F&I - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Elvis Fett
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-08-16 16:44:15 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
The game doesn't need more capital ships, it needs less.


Wow, I was going to say the exact same thing, verbatim.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#28 - 2012-08-16 16:45:18 UTC
Good general concept, but I disagree with your idea of implementation.
1) banned in highsec
2) longer range jump-drive than regular carrier

an alternate idea to this could be a mod which you can fit, enabling jump drives, prohibiting gate travel, and limiting it from highsec. So you could either jump through gates and have more versitility, or jump and have less.

3) captial mods, but smaller slot layout (less versitile), much lower PG and CPU
4) 5 fighter maximum
5) fighter warp speed bonus
6) EHP in line with several battleships.
Anslo
Scope Works
#29 - 2012-08-16 16:45:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
stuff


None of what you say is useful or unique to me. I've learned to slowly ignore anything you say when your name pops up.

Velicitia wrote:

So that gives you the right to poast in the wrong forum?


Yes, only to spite you.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Whadafool
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-08-16 16:46:09 UTC
and here it goes to die

stuff
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-08-16 16:54:41 UTC
escort carrier

bonus to range and amount of medium remote logistic modules to make ( makes these modules useful in some way

racial battleship
+1 drone per level
carrier/racial carrier skill ( maybe new skill?)
+33% damage, shield, armor, and drone repair amount bonus to drones

basically, its a carrier that repairs a less then a logistics, can use 10 drones but no weapons cannot use fighters but can field full flight of heavys, mediums and lights.
Zakuak
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-08-16 16:58:17 UTC
More ships is cool no matter what.

New class of ship seems to be a bit harder to put together.

Make them fast...I mean like faaast... I like Blastils suggestions too.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2012-08-16 17:55:47 UTC
Anslo wrote:
None of what you say is useful or unique to me.
Maybe you should start to actually listen then.

What would be the purpose of what you're proposing? What unique and useful function will it fulfil? Why, in short, should it be added to the game?

If you cannot answer those questions, then your suggestion, it's a useless or even harmful addition to the game. Stomping your feet and refusing to discuss the matter does not give your pointless idea any meaning — it only ever serves to prove that you are unwilling and unable to constructively contribute to the question you yourself asked.

You can scream invectives about me all over Dodixie as much as you like, but if you are on the public forums, your ideas will be critiqued and you need to learn how to respond to that critique without just breaking down and flaming out. So here's a suggestion: start discussing the topic and respond to the concerns people are posting.

Roll
Anslo
Scope Works
#34 - 2012-08-16 18:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Tippia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
None of what you say is useful or unique to me.
Maybe you should start to actually listen then.

What would be the purpose of what you're proposing? What unique and useful function will it fulfil? Why, in short, should it be added to the game?

If you cannot answer those questions, then your suggestion, it's a useless or even harmful addition to the game. Stomping your feet and refusing to discuss the matter does not give your pointless idea any meaning — it only ever serves to prove that you are unwilling and unable to constructively contribute to the question you yourself asked.

You can scream invectives about me all over Dodixie as much as you like, but if you are on the public forums, your ideas will be critiqued and you need to learn how to respond to that critique without just breaking down and flaming out. So here's a suggestion: start discussing the topic and respond to the concerns people are posting.



The minute your critiques actually sound like meaningful critiques as opposed to passive aggressive pot shots laced with accurate information in equal amount with contempt, then maybe I'll actually read what you have to say. Until then, you just sound like an ass. A self-serving, pompous ass incapable of avoiding sesquipedalian loquaciousness as long as it ends with you getting a rise from someone and attempting to look more intelligent than some individual posting a harmless thread on a damn forum.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2012-08-16 18:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Anslo wrote:
The minute your critiques actually sound like meaningful critiques
So right about now, then.

The questions are not hard, but they are fairly important for adding something new to the game, and since you wanted to discuss how to add something and not make it game-breaking, they become even more relevant:

What would be the purpose of what you're proposing?
What unique and useful function will it fulfil?
Why, in short, should it be added to the game?

You'll notice that I'm not the only one asking these questions, nor am I the only one to voice the concerns and objections to your idea. This should tell you something.
Whadafool
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-08-16 18:10:05 UTC
forum pvp at its finest Big smile

stuff
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#37 - 2012-08-16 18:21:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
What would be the purpose of what you're proposing? What unique and useful function will it fulfil? Why, in short, should it be added to the game?

If you cannot answer those questions, then your suggestion, it's a useless or even harmful addition to the game.

With respect, I don't quite think I agree with this.

Specifically, this game is all about duplication of effort. Being unique is by precedent an unwanted quality.

We give ships slightly different flavors, referred to here as races most often. Some of these even break down into sub-flavors like the two types of command ships or recons.

Creativity is one of this games unsung heroes.

As an example, the fact that you can use one of the four logistic ships to support multiple possible combinations of combat vessels does not begin to show the depths we have already. There is so much more.

With TiDi, the devs have come up with a way to handle large scale engagements without spinning things off into chaos.
No, I am not suggesting it solves every possible problem. But this suggested class of ships won't necessarily overwhelm fleet engagements any time soon either.
Implying that it would is baseless fear mongering on game aspects only CCP devs are qualified to address.

I would suggest instead focusing on whether it could add something of value to the game, not setting some imaginary minimum requirement most ships in the game already would fail.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Vakr Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-08-16 18:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vakr Onzo
Make the escort or light carrier a step between the Logistic Cruiser and the carrier. They should be battleship sized ships, with hull/shield/armor, sensor, powergrid and cpu output, speed, agility, and fittings being comparable to Battleships. Though to be honest, without weapon modules the fire control space could be converted to extra sensor strength.

Their drone bandwith should be just a bit superior to the Gallente drone battleship. Their drone bays would be smaller than the carriers, but big enough to afford various different types of drones; combat, sentry, EW, and Logistic drones. Not necessarily to have a full flight of every type though, just enough for versatility.

They could possibly have a ship maintenance array.

Racial Escort/Light Carrier Skill or whatever ship skill fancy you guys.
Bonuses possible for the escort/light carrier;

25% bonus to the range of racial Large remote repair modules (shield transporter for Caldari/Minmatar, remote armor repair for Amarr/Gallante) per level. This give a maximum of 17.5 km range for Tech 1 remote repair modules and a maximum of 21km for Tech 2 modules.
10% bonus to Drone Control Range, 5% bonus to Drone Tracking Speed, EW, Logistic, and Mining Drone Effectiveness per level. That would be to the electronic 'attack' strength of the EW, the repair amount of Logistic, and the yield of Mining Drones. The tracking is so they have a little easier time dealing with the frigates, especially those tacklers.

Role bonus: 50% reduction in capacitor usage for racial Large remote repair modules.

Oh it don't have a jump drive.

Really, you shouldn't shoot down the escort/light carrier idea. Just debate what it should or might or could be. I showed you mine above :)
Anslo
Scope Works
#39 - 2012-08-16 18:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Tippia wrote:
Anslo wrote:
The minute your critiques actually sound like meaningful critiques
So right about now, then.

The questions are not hard, but they are fairly important for adding something new to the game, and since you wanted to discuss how to add something and not make it game-breaking, they become even more relevant:

What would be the purpose of what you're proposing?
What unique and useful function will it fulfil?
Why, in short, should it be added to the game?

You'll notice that I'm not the only one asking these questions, nor am I the only one to voice the concerns and objections to your idea. This should tell you something.


It tells me something but I take offense from how you passive aggressively frame your questions as if to shame the other individual, thus I find many of your points moot and not worth the time to filter through your pot shots.

But I'll give it a shot.

What would be the purpose of what you're proposing?- The purpose is to bring a faster, more affordable and potentially versatile class of carrier to more people in order to expand on carrier war fare and to potentially provide a ship that, finally, has anti-fighter turrets that can automatically protect the vessel or what it escorts.

What unique and useful function will it fulfil? Affordable sub carrier (much like the Orca is to the Rorqual), a more mobile and versatile carrier, affordable "capital" ships, potentially even could act as a form of armed freighter or transport. Hell it could even act as the war barge hull for DUST/EVE interaction.

Why, in short, should it be added to the game? Why should the industrial/miner people be the only one to have a high sec "capital" ship?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2012-08-16 18:40:33 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
(stuff)



Tippia's arguing against the addition of something "just because" (see: Titans for why this is bad).

So, out of my ass thoughts

Purpose --> Steping stone between T1 logi cruiser (which need fixed with tiericide) and carrier.
Unique Funtion --> fits large reppers (I know T2 logi can do this, but meh) and has some bonuses.
Why --> well, you've got me here Smile

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia