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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Winter] Exploration Frigate Rebalance

First post
Author
Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-08-16 08:58:52 UTC
Fozzie, I've been noticing about 1 in 10 posters mention that the issue lies with exploration content rather than exploration ships. After all, part of the purpose of re-designing these ships is making sure people have a reason to use them (i.e. that there's something fun to do with them).

Perhaps once you've finished the ship re-balancing, you might float the idea of adding to the abilities of Codebreaker/Analyzer/Salvager Modules. Instead of these being "click for loots" modules, there should be some more meaningful content behind their usage.

For instance, in the game Fallout, hacking a computer system involved what amounted to a quick game of hangman.

I'm not proposing that system exactly, but some, similar, system that lets the player's (not the character's) intelligence, skill, agility, and/or experience at hacking/salvaging/analyzing positively influence the outcome (honestly, the process of scanning itself could use more of this... very dull).

Other ideas, like adding more hackable/analyzable targets to the game and making more "sciencey" content, also sounded good (for hacking think: hacking PoS's and other players' ships; for analyzers: running an analyzer on an "Abandoned Mining Colony" could produce links to the wiki lore pages: think CCP Abraxas's project).

One other addition to the content area which could be nice, especially for high sec: Cosmic Signature Bookmark Marketplace. Which could be, basically, a community-built, high-sec infrastructure hub with an upgrade slot for a "Regional Cosmic Signature Database" (or some such) which allows scanners to sell the locations of the things they find to interested parties who hate scanning. It seems like such a shame to let all those signatures I pass up go to waste just because it's hard to share the information.

Hope this isn't too off-topic for you...
Akriel Tanna
Havamalian Angels
#142 - 2012-08-16 10:28:31 UTC
Greetings,

I'm sure it must have been mentioned before (or not), but I'm slightly curious on why does the Imicus is the slowest, the one which has the highest signature radius and the one with the worst align time?

Thank you in advance!

Akriel
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-08-16 10:35:09 UTC
Akriel Tanna wrote:
Greetings,

I'm sure it must have been mentioned before (or not), but I'm slightly curious on why does the Imicus is the slowest, the one which has the highest signature radius and the one with the worst align time?

Thank you in advance!

Akriel



I don't know how it affects mobility but the Imicus also has the lowest mass. Does that mean it gets a more efficient use of propulsion mods than the others? Might explain it
Akriel Tanna
Havamalian Angels
#144 - 2012-08-16 11:54:44 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Akriel Tanna wrote:
Greetings,

I'm sure it must have been mentioned before (or not), but I'm slightly curious on why does the Imicus is the slowest, the one which has the highest signature radius and the one with the worst align time?

Thank you in advance!

Akriel



I don't know how it affects mobility but the Imicus also has the lowest mass. Does that mean it gets a more efficient use of propulsion mods than the others? Might explain it


It just caught my attention cause I thought that the new fashion regarding Speed stuff was:

Minmatar > Gallente > Amarr > Caldari

Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2012-08-16 16:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We felt that they were good enough as cyno ships as is, and that capital projection isn't really an area of the game that needs a buff right now.

Since cyno lighting is such a big part of their use, the equalized cargo capacity is intended to make sure that each of them can at least keep up with the old Probe.

The avenues for these ships to become more useful to older players most likely will lie with hacking and archaeology.


Hey Fozzie,

I was just thinking out of the box... why ships need to sacrifice themselfes to open the Cyno? this makes no sense if you think about it... In real life it would make no sense at all.

If the cynosural field generates a so powerfull gravitational field that anchors the activation module in the place, why it is put in a ship, not in a probe? Cientists should have tought about it ... a boms sized probe... It would allow the use of more expensive ships for this task alowing them to drop the probe and go away......

BTW, you are doing a good job on the reballancing!!!
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2012-08-16 16:18:25 UTC
Exploration is what brought me to EVE and its something I still do very often. I am very much in agreement with these changes and anything we can do to make exploration more engrossing.

I'd like to see mini-profession sites get the chance to spawn expeditions for explorers.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.

Vakr Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-08-16 16:23:10 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
I was just thinking out of the box... why ships need to sacrifice themselfes to open the Cyno? this makes no sense if you think about it... In real life it would make no sense at all.
Because in fluff the capsuleers are the "Immortals". They know they have a clone waiting for them when they sacrifice their ships and themselves.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#148 - 2012-08-16 21:04:45 UTC
So it seems the imicus is the way to go then, gets an extra drone and with any luck you will be able to fit drone damage mod or 2.
What about making a high slot that comes with a fixed fixed code breaker/analyzer. Switching between the 2 can be a script.
Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2012-08-17 00:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Deena Amaj
Traidir wrote:
Fozzie, I've been noticing about 1 in 10 posters mention that the issue lies with exploration content rather than exploration ships. After all, part of the purpose of re-designing these ships is making sure people have a reason to use them (i.e. that there's something fun to do with them).

Perhaps once you've finished the ship re-balancing, you might float the idea of adding to the abilities of Codebreaker/Analyzer/Salvager Modules. Instead of these being "click for loots" modules, there should be some more meaningful content behind their usage.

For instance, in the game Fallout, hacking a computer system involved what amounted to a quick game of hangman.

I'm not proposing that system exactly, but some, similar, system that lets the player's (not the character's) intelligence, skill, agility, and/or experience at hacking/salvaging/analyzing positively influence the outcome (honestly, the process of scanning itself could use more of this... very dull).

Other ideas, like adding more hackable/analyzable targets to the game and making more "sciencey" content, also sounded good (for hacking think: hacking PoS's and other players' ships; for analyzers: running an analyzer on an "Abandoned Mining Colony" could produce links to the wiki lore pages: think CCP Abraxas's project).




Edit:
Ugh, frakking board ate my text. -_-
Rewriting text while dispatching killswitch orders.


The reason why only 1 of 10 are talking about exploration is because you can only pretty much do such exploration sites like radar with an explo-frig in HISEC only. Not only are most sites overrun by Hisec dwellers (ymmv), you can pretty much survive anything with the frigs. It is fun though to do it with a Probe, I'm not complaining about that part.

However, you'll die super fast in Low or 0.0sec in a frig.

One thing I wish would happen would be that certain sites could only be accessed by Explorational Frigate-Hulls (and destroyers, I suppose); raising the need for more teamwork along with Risk/Reward/Fun.

Star Trek Elite Force 2 also had an interesting feature in terms of hacking, where you had to reroute power in form of some "PipeDream" mini game in a very short amount of time.

I also wish Explorational-Professions, from actual Probing to Hacking/Analyzing/etc requiring the brains of a charachter-and-player who really understands the math, the science behind things -- giving us a light version of technobabble - So like having the necessity of somebody who actually skilled deeply into Science and industry stuff.


A bit off-topic;
I wish Science Ships in general would be an independant bracket introduced to the game.
Sort of like Science Vessels somewhere within the pool of the obvious combat ships and the industrial mining ships (Barges, Exhumers, Industrial Ships, ORE vessels, etc).

This however requires a lot more in terms of exploration --
I was thinking of random star systems that spawn/despawn with various goodies and dangers in style of the Wormhole star systems - BUT in normal EVE space. This would require however a non-cyno variant as well as some sort of true Hyperdrive FTL fluff, jumping from A to B.

Science should not also just be about staring at a BPC cooking clock either.

I will make a seperate thread regarding ideas, even though it is likely to die out, but at least things will be said.

Go me.

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.

Lili Lu
#150 - 2012-08-17 00:52:31 UTC
Sorry, haven't read the thread to see if you adjusted anything from the op. What do I think? I think you are making me mad.

These ships have a role. You give them the same bonuses for that role. Then you slap on some confounding "racial" diffenrences that mean that some are disadvantaged for that role and other favored for that role. At the same time you grant one race an exemption from it's former disadvantages.

The role is heavily dependent on midslots. These ships are not meant to tank and deal damage are they. They get no combat bonuses. The heron gets the most midslots, 5 v 3 for two of the other ships. Then that Caldari ship is given more speed than the gallente ship, and it gets about as big a drone bay. It gets a better pwg than the imicus. And even a smaller sig radius. There is no downside for the heron. It is hands down the best. There is no re "balancing" in this.Ugh
Sun Win
#151 - 2012-08-17 06:19:30 UTC
Juniorama wrote:
Minmattar - Ladar - Bonus to Gas Mining


No.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#152 - 2012-08-17 06:52:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The avenues for these ships to become more useful to older players most likely will lie with hacking and archaeology.


And L2 courier missions :)

Though I will miss the 5% cargo capacity per level of Minmatar Frigate with the Probe.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#153 - 2012-08-17 13:02:19 UTC
Akriel Tanna wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Akriel Tanna wrote:
Greetings,

I'm sure it must have been mentioned before (or not), but I'm slightly curious on why does the Imicus is the slowest, the one which has the highest signature radius and the one with the worst align time?

Thank you in advance!

Akriel



I don't know how it affects mobility but the Imicus also has the lowest mass. Does that mean it gets a more efficient use of propulsion mods than the others? Might explain it


It just caught my attention cause I thought that the new fashion regarding Speed stuff was:

Minmatar > Gallente > Amarr > Caldari



It generally is, but drone focused ships are sometimes exceptions. That being said with the slot changes we can probably adjust the relative mobility of the ships a bit.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#154 - 2012-08-17 13:04:33 UTC
Traidir wrote:
Fozzie, I've been noticing about 1 in 10 posters mention that the issue lies with exploration content rather than exploration ships. After all, part of the purpose of re-designing these ships is making sure people have a reason to use them (i.e. that there's something fun to do with them).

Perhaps once you've finished the ship re-balancing, you might float the idea of adding to the abilities of Codebreaker/Analyzer/Salvager Modules. Instead of these being "click for loots" modules, there should be some more meaningful content behind their usage.

For instance, in the game Fallout, hacking a computer system involved what amounted to a quick game of hangman.

I'm not proposing that system exactly, but some, similar, system that lets the player's (not the character's) intelligence, skill, agility, and/or experience at hacking/salvaging/analyzing positively influence the outcome (honestly, the process of scanning itself could use more of this... very dull).

Other ideas, like adding more hackable/analyzable targets to the game and making more "sciencey" content, also sounded good (for hacking think: hacking PoS's and other players' ships; for analyzers: running an analyzer on an "Abandoned Mining Colony" could produce links to the wiki lore pages: think CCP Abraxas's project).

One other addition to the content area which could be nice, especially for high sec: Cosmic Signature Bookmark Marketplace. Which could be, basically, a community-built, high-sec infrastructure hub with an upgrade slot for a "Regional Cosmic Signature Database" (or some such) which allows scanners to sell the locations of the things they find to interested parties who hate scanning. It seems like such a shame to let all those signatures I pass up go to waste just because it's hard to share the information.

Hope this isn't too off-topic for you...


I completely agree that much of the exploration content could use a redesign, but that's out of the scope of these changes unfortunately. What we're trying to do here is take ships that don't currently have a useful role and given them a role, even if that role is mostly limited to new players.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#155 - 2012-08-17 14:14:45 UTC
Fozzie - if exploration is getting changed up in the near future (Re: Incarna stuff), have you spoken to Team Avatar about how current exploration content, including the ships you are designing, fit in with those changes/additions.

Even if (as I suspect is the case) the new content planned is both a while away, and an addition, not a replacement, it is something you should collaborate on to make sure the pieces fit together.

Q: Have you talked with Team Avatar, regarding the currently mostly-unannounced exploration content. Has this affected your own plans at all?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#156 - 2012-08-17 15:02:34 UTC
We have no plans that I know of to change exploration. I agree they could use a serious refresh but with all the other content we need to fix I cannot say that there will be any changes to them in the near future.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#157 - 2012-08-17 15:38:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Shandir
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We have no plans that I know of to change exploration. I agree they could use a serious refresh but with all the other content we need to fix I cannot say that there will be any changes to them in the near future.

The only information we have on the Incarna changes say it's going to be exploration content - surely you guys know about this?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2012-08-17 15:46:44 UTC
You could make exploration agents, you are given an acceleration gate key for a gate in a particular system, you would have to scan down the site, activate the gate run the site by using a combination of combat and analyzer or salvager or codebreaker. It would have the mission item in it and maybe some extra goodies like what a normal site would generate. Just a thought

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2012-08-17 18:11:35 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
You could make exploration agents, you are given an acceleration gate key for a gate in a particular system, you would have to scan down the site, activate the gate run the site by using a combination of combat and analyzer or salvager or codebreaker. It would have the mission item in it and maybe some extra goodies like what a normal site would generate. Just a thought


THAT. But on a slightly larger scale, if you please: )!
Would prefer a star system that must be "explored", rather than just a site. You know, scanning for how many planets, moons, etc.

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#160 - 2012-08-17 18:20:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
It generally is, but drone focused ships are sometimes exceptions.
Why? Isn't having to use drones punishment enough? Big smile