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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 Feedback

First post First post
Author
Steijn
Quay Industries
#341 - 2012-08-16 11:34:43 UTC
well they still havent fixed the tutorial neocom button, so it doesnt fill me with much hope that todays patch has actually fixed anything at all.

How hard is it to program something that says 'if tick box a is yes, then do not display button b in neocom'?
Steijn
Quay Industries
#342 - 2012-08-16 11:36:15 UTC
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information

Does it mean that you release updates w/o knowing exactly what's going in there? Hm... why am I not surprised?


they do that with expansions, nevermind updates.
Ken Sunji
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#343 - 2012-08-16 11:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ken Sunji
Patch notes are not up yep btw.....

EDIT: ???? Change control 101... advise the client what you are doing.......
blaine thepain
Die Gallier - Abt. Sicherheit
#344 - 2012-08-16 11:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: blaine thepain
Gregor Zar wrote:
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information

Does it mean that you release updates w/o knowing exactly what's going in there? Hm... why am I not surprised?


Some things never change...



10 bugs fixed - 10 new bugs implemented

Uh! Wait thats Microsoft -> CCP - 10 bugs tryed to fix - 20 new bugs implemented
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#345 - 2012-08-16 11:40:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information

Does it mean that you release updates w/o knowing exactly what's going in there?


The Community team is responsible for publishing the patch notes overall and not each single team individually. The Community team always experiences a little delay internally with receiving all required information. That is a normal process everywhere and inherent. Sometimes however this delay unfortunately adds up enough to become visible - something which we prefer to avoid but which still can happen due to various reasons. Sad

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

backtrace
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#346 - 2012-08-16 11:48:32 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
The Community team is responsible for publishing the patch notes overall and not each single team individually.

This is totally reasonable. But I'd expect there to be a Release Engineering team. And that team should know exactly what's going in every single release. This means RE team can provide Community team with that information. Since you mentioned "each single team", I assume there's no team/person who controls, knows, and verifies what exactly is going into each release. This is scary.
blaine thepain
Die Gallier - Abt. Sicherheit
#347 - 2012-08-16 11:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: blaine thepain
CCP Phantom wrote:
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information

Does it mean that you release updates w/o knowing exactly what's going in there?


The Community team is responsible for publishing the patch notes overall and not each single team individually. The Community team always experiences a little delay internally with receiving all required information. That is a normal process everywhere and inherent. Sometimes however this delay unfortunately adds up enough to become visible - something which we prefer to avoid but which still can happen due to various reasons. Sad



???
Is there no supervisor who coordinate all teams together?
A team or a person who has the overview over all work? What is done for the next release going live on TQ?
It's only one Information who has to be delivered to the Community team -> things getting patched in version 1.2.5 -> post it now.
If you going on with this practice -> you will end up with 1.2.4331 until everything is fixed.

So long


Blaine the pain
Mr Bimble
Lost Ark Enterprises
#348 - 2012-08-16 12:00:58 UTC
To begin with it looked as thought the latest patch had fixed some very annoying issues.Tooltips,why cant I turn it off?The pain with the inventory tree,just sloes everything down.The hassle with cargo hold and salvaging.The bloody annoying fiter.But sadly its not the case.I can no longer be bothered to fight the ****** up system.My salvager can stay docked up and I'll forget missions and Just afk mine in my over inflated Mack. Boring but I have a long,too long subscription to use.
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#349 - 2012-08-16 12:11:46 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 has been deployed successfully.

Inferno 1.2 brings a large amount of improvements, including a revamped tutorials for the New Player Experience, fitting enhancements, full alchemy reactions, ship rebalancing of frigates and mining barges and a lot more.

For full details, especially already known issues, please check the patch notes.

This thread is for general feedback. If you encounter any issues please use the Inferno 1.2 issues thread here.



Redo the drones feature where the drones bracket apperence is the same as the drones belonging to the fleetmembers, the feature is ill adviced, and noone benefits from it. Either this or make a total new bracket apperence for drones.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#350 - 2012-08-16 12:57:19 UTC
backtrace wrote:
Since you mentioned "each single team", I assume there's no team/person who controls, knows, and verifies what exactly is going into each release.
That assumption is gladly not correct. Certainly we have a supervision, everything else would be a bit ... odd. Big smile But there is also a difference between having rather technical notes on what was changed and easily readable patch notes on the other hand.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

backtrace
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#351 - 2012-08-16 13:12:17 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Certainly we have a supervision, everything else would be a bit ... odd.

I feel much safer now.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#352 - 2012-08-16 13:32:42 UTC
so you fixed an exploit but don't bother to mention in the patch notes what it is? How does that make sense? I can see why you would not want to mention what it is before it's fixed but after the fact the patch notes should reflect the changes or what's the point of patch notes?

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#353 - 2012-08-16 13:48:21 UTC
Mr Bimble wrote:
To begin with it looked as thought the latest patch had fixed some very annoying issues.Tooltips,why cant I turn it off?The pain with the inventory tree,just sloes everything down.The hassle with cargo hold and salvaging.The bloody annoying fiter.But sadly its not the case.I can no longer be bothered to fight the ****** up system.My salvager can stay docked up and I'll forget missions and Just afk mine in my over inflated Mack. Boring but I have a long,too long subscription to use.


This guy is pretty right on. The inventory system is still AFU ( All ****** Up) I am guessing at this point that it's not accidentally AFU but some kind of anti botting measure but I can't be sure. Anyway if the only way you can combat botters is to make everyone elses' game a PITA I find that sad.

Inventory management is the most basic and used aspect of this game. Every time you dock it's a PITA. Every time you salvage it's a PITA. PoS management is now a PITA. Managing inventory is now a PITA. Mining ops are now a PITA. I hate to imagine if you are a PvPer trying to access something in your cargo in a hurry and just want your cargohold to open in the same ******* spot where you always have it open in the same ******* size but no if you forget to hit shift then your cargohold closes something else and opens in a different place and a different size and now you are scrambling to get the window that you just had open back.

Why can't you just bring back the old inventory system already?

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Lucius Arcturus
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#354 - 2012-08-16 13:53:06 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
You trained the skill for the old effect, we re-balanced the game so that a skill isn't needed anymore and changed the effect of the skill to a new effect. You can still accomplish what you trained the skill for and now you can accomplish something new as well. You are better off after than before.


Kudos for getting rid of a lame, arbitrary game mechanic and its associated skill. Whitewashing the subsequent forced skill training with a "This is better for you" lecture is a bit disingenuous, however. I have written a poem in the vein of Dr. Seuss to illustrate my feelings:

I do not like this, CCP.
I do not like you choosing skills for me.
I do not like it in my ship,
I do not like your cunning quip.

I would not train this skill in my pod,
I would not train it for my god.

I would not put this in my brain,
You would not see it on my main.

I would not inject it, no I won't,
But reimburse my SPs, no you don't?

I like to choose my very own skills,
Your rationale gives me the chills.

Please let me set my own training plan,
Thank you, thank you, Sam I am!
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#355 - 2012-08-16 14:04:59 UTC
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
The Community team is responsible for publishing the patch notes overall and not each single team individually.

This is totally reasonable. But I'd expect there to be a Release Engineering team. And that team should know exactly what's going in every single release. This means RE team can provide Community team with that information. Since you mentioned "each single team", I assume there's no team/person who controls, knows, and verifies what exactly is going into each release. This is scary.
This.

Patch notes should be generated off the design specification used to code the fixes / changes / additions. If an aspect of the release does not get done in time, then that line item is simply removed or saved for a subsequent release.

It is clear that your development teams are not coding to any sort of documented specification if your community liaison team is waiting for developers to communicate what was changed. This is also why features do not turn out as anybody (designers and customers alike) might have expected. What is the most frightening for CCP and your long-term viability is that you have allowed this level of immature development behavior to live on in spite of your company's come-to-Jesus moment last year.

This is a management challenge that, by all appearances, is being ignored and allowed to fester company-wide.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#356 - 2012-08-16 14:29:35 UTC
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
The Community team is responsible for publishing the patch notes overall and not each single team individually.
This is totally reasonable. But I'd expect there to be a Release Engineering team. And that team should know exactly what's going in every single release. This means RE team can provide Community team with that information. Since you mentioned "each single team", I assume there's no team/person who controls, knows, and verifies what exactly is going into each release. This is scary.
I know what is in each release and as does the release group, and each team knows that they are deploying. But there is a difference in knowing the change lists, the code changes and the technical change-list descriptions from our source and data control management systems, and having readable patch notes.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#357 - 2012-08-16 14:42:41 UTC
James Selkirk wrote:


So, Ethnic Relations has a changed name and a changed function, yet somehow this does not count as removing a skill and adding a whole different skill. Because I trained Ethnic Relations to have a multicultural corporation, not to hire allies in wars I'm not about to get into.



Agreed. There is a difference between tweaking a skill and completely removing it and introducing an entirely new and unrelated skill and just swapping skill points. This is at best laziness and more likely shows an adversarial attitude that is had by the devs for the player base.

It seems that instead of prioritizing good game design you have made not admitting wrong doing the priority. It seems you did not want to refund any more skill points so you invented some lame bullshit. Think about what makes sense and what makes a good game and not what is easier.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#358 - 2012-08-16 15:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
@CCP Explorer

Since the previous mini-patch, when I dual or multi-box a L4 mission (i.e. Downing The Slavers, Minmatar space) the loot triangles appear randomly to be some white some yellow.

Since I had no "player invasion", is this a bug, a glitch or what?

I do get the "steal item" warning window, the yellow wrecks have the Ticker of my other alt corp, I am sure it's not a ninja.

And yes I was in the same fleet since mission accept and no, I did not swap anybody, invited anybody, kicked anybody.
The wrecks are white to the fleet leader, just not for others.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#359 - 2012-08-16 15:22:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
@CCP Explorer

Since the previous mini-patch, when I dual or multi-box a L4 mission (i.e. Downing The Slavers, Minmatar space) the loot triangles appear randomly to be some white some yellow.

Since I had no "player invasion", is this a bug, a glitch or what?

I do get the "steal item" warning window, the yellow wrecks have the Ticker of my other alt corp, I am sure it's not a ninja.

And yes I was in the same fleet since mission accept and no, I did not swap anybody, invited anybody, kicked anybody.
The wrecks are white to the fleet leader, just not for others.
Please send us a bug report from within the client the next time this happens (include a screenshot, which you can make in that reporting system). Thanks!

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#360 - 2012-08-16 15:35:45 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
The inventory system is still AFU ( All ****** Up) I am guessing at this point that it's not accidentally AFU but some kind of anti botting measure but I can't be sure. Anyway if the only way you can combat botters is to make everyone elses' game a PITA I find that sad.

Inventory management is the most basic and used aspect of this game. Every time you dock it's a PITA. Every time you salvage it's a PITA. PoS management is now a PITA. Managing inventory is now a PITA. Mining ops are now a PITA. I hate to imagine if you are a PvPer trying to access something in your cargo in a hurry and just want your cargohold to open in the same ******* spot where you always have it open in the same ******* size but no if you forget to hit shift then your cargohold closes something else and opens in a different place and a different size and now you are scrambling to get the window that you just had open back.


Did you try the new setting we added into the header of the Inventory that allows you to open up secondary windows always by default without the need to hold shift? That should solve the issue you describe regarding windows not appearing again where you expect them, because you are probably opening primary windows, but positioned a secondary window.

If you could describe to us the use cases of issues you have with Salvaging, PoS management, general Inventory Management, Mining ops & PvP then I would be glad to bring that to the appropriate parties for review. Anything that allows us to redo the action you have a problem doing, will get us closer to fixing it for you.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow