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Eve from a new players perspective and discussion to improve

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hyhn
Iynx Teledyne Armory
The Chogo Ri Commonwealth
#21 - 2012-08-16 04:18:25 UTC
Cyonsiaros StrawHat wrote:
crew of individuals. This would be due to how elitism works and how smaller numbers can easily take on larger or better fit numbers of opponents based on the skill present within the fleet.

SP and wealth will be slightly devalued overall......t.



I have to stop you right here ---

first, I would suggest you join some player channels and talk with ppl that have some experience with the game long term. That will clear up a lot of misconceptions you have about the game.

second , Eve is supposed to be a game in a dark, cold, cruel, harsh environment. How can it be all these things if you devalue wealth and SP ? It is a trap that I see a lot of older pilots falling into but the essence of meaningful pvp is the fact that your choices against another player matter -- you better make the right ones or you will lose big.

Anyone with a little bit of experience in eve will tell you that the to be on par with any other pilot in say a frigate only requires x amount of SP --- you are relevant now. If you don't see how just ask someone.

Eve has a reputation of having a lot of loud obnoxious butt heads but you only have to scratch the surface to find a pretty helpful community.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-08-16 04:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Not every game is supposed to be watched on some nerd's stream with ****** dubstep and dancing gifs on the corners. Not every game needs a competitive scene.

Competitive scenes ruin games IMO, when people making gaming a job (lmfao so fail) bad things happen.

Your idea of fighting has no place in EvE, this isn't a reaction game. It is a thinking mans game. Conflict are won by brains not trigger fingers.


If this is a real post, then lmfao.

If this is a troll, then one of the best I've ever seen, but a little too long to be optimal in effectiveness.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#23 - 2012-08-16 04:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Cyonsiaros StrawHat wrote:


Right this is actually a problem I ran into.
Not so much the length of it, but the format like I mentioned. Length is nothing here, I mean this ain't the WoW forum where ADD reigns, well if you have something good to say. But I mean just the format in general. See up top in edit? You have bullets, Bold text, Underline etc. Mix that with actual paragraphs? Something maybe an english teacher wouldn't give you a D- or an F on?

See, think about coming back to it in a few days after it's not so fresh in your mind. Then imagine trying to find a point in it without needing to read the whole thing over again. Even going back after reading it, just to comment on a point, it's lost. Living in the core of a magnetar would be more comfortable.

Or at least a suggestion for your next long post, whatever.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-08-16 04:26:47 UTC
Cyonsiaros StrawHat wrote:
Gun Gal wrote:
id say soemthing witty, but alas, theres nothing else really to say to yet another person who started eve and seems to think he/ she/it is the authority on how to fix EVE.

like it or leave it, this is EVE

ohh, and ya, tl;dr


That's cool. I see you note something broken in eve; how many years have you played and how little have you contributed? Perhaps you are still learning? I don't know. What I do know is I make my salary from games.

I didn't go to school for games; I've just been successful in games through performance or study of markets involved. I wonder; did you too focus your lifes work around games and the monetization of such or do your skills lie elsewhere?

Now I'm not a millionaire but I do make several thousand dollars a month to live off of. I'm not currently sponsored for tournaments or other play and instead majorly capitalize on markets of games whose currency is easily converted to U.S. dollars.

Now I've studied games for many years and my background education is Business and Psych oriented. I attended rutgers business and I'm about to join my sister at penn for psychology. Both fields have helped me vastly in different areas of life.

I'm no game developer; I don't claim to be- But given I make a living from games I am in some position to make that call; I mean gaming is my career.

On a side note Eve cannot be monetized very easily. The currency is not worth it and this is why you don't see farmers and bots as much as other games. The hours needed per payout an hour is terrible compared to other markets. People in my field do not profit off of games like eve unless they are secondary retailers for ccp.

8 billion isk a day could support someone alone but not lead a single income family anytime in my country very well.


Translation.

I'm a farmer and make a living selling virtual currency, and I can't do that in eve for reasons I don't understand even though I went to Rutgers and will be joined to my sister shortly.


Only response needed.
No one gives a ****, and I hate telling a new player this, but gtfo.
Cyonsiaros StrawHat
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-08-16 04:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyonsiaros StrawHat
hyhn wrote:
Cyonsiaros StrawHat wrote:
crew of individuals. This would be due to how elitism works and how smaller numbers can easily take on larger or better fit numbers of opponents based on the skill present within the fleet.

SP and wealth will be slightly devalued overall......t.



I have to stop you right here ---

first, I would suggest you join some player channels and talk with ppl that have some experience with the game long term. That will clear up a lot of misconceptions you have about the game.



In all fairness what compelled me to post was an active Stream Channel where the games streamers chat. There are some veterans amongst them; the stream of importance was the supercap incident of earlier where several were caught but the event only had 1,000 viewers for a very short time period. Furthermore there is little telling if any of these players or even a 10 year vet is of much use as skill is not easily quantifiable.

hyhn wrote:
Cyonsiaros StrawHat wrote:
second , Eve is supposed to be a game in a dark, cold, cruel, harsh environment. How can it be all these things if you devalue wealth and SP ? It is a trap that I see a lot of older pilots falling into but the essence of meaningful pvp is the fact that your choices against another player matter -- you better make the right ones or you will lose big.


The slight devaluation of these elements is a by-product of a mechanic which would make pvp skill based. Sp and wealth should matter more than skill? By how much?

---

To a previous poster -

Energy neuts and shield break and recharge %'s and sweetspots are no secret to me - the mechanic I suggested has a stronger relation between "energy" and defense/offense than is currently in-game. Thank you for the link although it is important for you to understand when I say energy; it is not when you as an eve player think of energy; nor is it mana. I don't regard energy and capacitor as the same thing in my post; I note capacitor is a measure of resource and next to it could be an energy resource; or the two could be intertwined. More emphasis in the mechanic suggested is placed on actively engaging in pvp and less bland pvp where everyones positioned with all modules 100% on for long durations without any emphasis of resource management besides the very little amount that actually exists in game. I will tell you it is much less advanced as is and means little in comparison.

Webvan wrote:


Right this is actually a problem I ran into.
Not so much the length of it, but the format like I mentioned.


I will re-write the post; it was foolish to present the material in such a way and I explicitly gave definitions to concepts which already have definitions which differ which further confuses the issue. I presented a scrap pile and literally it was received as such. I believe I did so having had been tired from just getting in scratch the thoughts surrounding the mechanic idea. As this is the case; as mentioned I will re-write the post and link the new thread from here so that people can follow.

I'm sorry I slipped and posted without a finished product and I'd be displeased especially when I didn't relate the thoughts well and nobody can understand the ideas I was trying to bring to the table; when re-written I can promise the community it will warrant a read. Sorry Guys! fixed soon.
Forum Harlot
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-08-16 04:35:41 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Competitive scenes ruin games IMO,


Why?

Diesel47 wrote:
when people making gaming a job (lmfao so fail) bad things happen.


Why fail and what bad things? They make money doing something they enjoy?

Diesel47 wrote:
It is a thinking mans game.

Hah.

Diesel47 wrote:
Conflict are won by brains not trigger fingers.



Conflicts are won by supers and drakes.

Diesel47 wrote:
If this is a real post, then lmfao.


No, I'm sure it's imaginary.

If your post is genuine, then rofldoflgomp.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-16 04:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Quote:
Why?


Because I said so.

Quote:
Why fail and what bad things? They make money doing something they enjoy?


No pro gamer actually likes the game they play. It isn't possible to spend your entire day training on the same game and still like it after 8 hours of non-stop giving it your best.


Quote:
Conflicts are won by supers and drakes.


The game isn't this simple, stop being stupid. Go watch that video linked on the first page, might make you think a little.
Forum Harlot
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-08-16 04:58:26 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:

Because I said so.


So you don't actually have a reasoning behind your opinion? Seems wise.

Quote:
No pro gamer actually likes the game they play.


This is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Do they get sick of the games sometimes? Sure. But to excel at anything with a very competitive scene, you can't despise what you do; you'll burn out. Feel free to actually argue against this instead of throwing blatant claims around.

Quote:
It isn't possible to spend your entire day training on the same game and still like it after 8 hours of non-stop giving it your best.


Why not? I do that often.


Quote:
The game isn't this simple, stop being stupid.


You clearly proved me wrong.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-08-16 05:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Forum Harlot wrote:

You clearly proved me wrong.


Now you can realize it isn't worth the effort to try to prove anything to you.

Because it would literally be a waste of time.

And say that I did somehow manage to make you think as I do. So what? Why would I care what you think? Roll

EvE isn't competitive, it never will be. I'm happy.
Forum Harlot
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-08-16 05:14:39 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:

Now you can realize it isn't worth the effort to try to prove anything to you.


I was just asking for a reasoning behind your rather inane claims above.

Diesel47 wrote:
And say that I did somehow manage to make you think as I do. So what? Why would I care what you think? Roll


Well, in a discussion it's rather natural to, you know, discuss things. I never actually expressed any concern regarding whether or not you cared what I thought.

I thought this much was obvious. Alas, I was wrong.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2012-08-16 05:16:17 UTC
Forum Harlot wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Competitive scenes ruin games IMO,
Why?


I partially agree with Diesel47. Unless the game is built up around the e-sports scene, you end up with something where the "PVP" is just a wasted time that the developers could have used to improve the rest of the game with.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Forum Harlot
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-08-16 05:18:30 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Forum Harlot wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Competitive scenes ruin games IMO,
Why?


I partially agree with Diesel47. Unless the game is built up around the e-sports scene, you end up with something where the "PVP" is just a wasted time that the developers could have used to improve the rest of the game with.



How does this translate into "Competitive scenes ruin games"?
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#33 - 2012-08-16 05:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
They focus on twitch based games for the most part. Thankfully EVE will never go to the Olympics, or most any mmo for that matter. Pro = uninteresting. I'd rather watch a chess match. Not dissing chess :)
I odn;t know how it would ruin them though... or at what level. Ruined socially maybe? or hack flood?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Cyonsiaros StrawHat
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-08-16 05:45:28 UTC
Post was re-written. The first 5 pages of this thread have been removed with directions to the new thread which is in the appropriate forum. This will better explain the idea I hope. Have a look- if the formatting is still bad - please let me know
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-16 05:53:30 UTC
Cyonsiaros StrawHat wrote:
Post was re-written. The first 5 pages of this thread have been removed with directions to the new thread which is in the appropriate forum. This will better explain the idea I hope. Have a look- if the formatting is still bad - please let me know

Doesnt make you any less of a pompous RMTer that thinks he knows what's best for a 9 year old game that's been doing just fine without you.

Please go back to whatever games it was you were making a living in and leave EVE alone.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#36 - 2012-08-16 06:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
You know, the further away from pro-gaming, the better. I'd like to see the genre depopulate to pre-wow numbers. All it did was bring popular fail to a genre rehashed into some Frankencasual monster. Few games left focusing on the original hardocore style of the classic genre. Pro gaming and all the media attention needs to stick to... whatever they are following today, the craze, don't need more fail groups walking on my lawn... and their dogs crapping on it.


Oh and btw, Cyo, no matter what you do you're goin to get trolled here :) welcome to EVE forums.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-08-16 06:08:44 UTC
Forum Harlot wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Forum Harlot wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Competitive scenes ruin games IMO,
Why?


I partially agree with Diesel47. Unless the game is built up around the e-sports scene, you end up with something where the "PVP" is just a wasted time that the developers could have used to improve the rest of the game with.



How does this translate into "Competitive scenes ruin games"?


Because not all games translates well into being competitive. No matter how much the developer wants it to be.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Forum Harlot
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-08-16 06:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Forum Harlot
Alpheias wrote:

Because not all games translates well into being competitive. No matter how much the developer wants it to be.


A competitive scene is usually a result of a game that supports competitive play to begin with; that's how the scene grows. Rarely have I ever seen a game being ruined by (or developed exclusively towards) a competitive scene. Can you give any examples where this has happened?
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2012-08-16 07:16:59 UTC
Forum Harlot wrote:
Alpheias wrote:

Because not all games translates well into being competitive. No matter how much the developer wants it to be.


A competitive scene is usually a result of a game that supports competitive play to begin with; that's how the scene grows. Rarely have I ever seen a game being ruined by (or developed exclusively towards) a competitive scene. Can you give any examples where this has happened?


This is my personal opinion, of course. But I'd say Starcraft 2.

Back in the '90, Blizzard games were all very story driven and I would argue that is the main reason why people played Diablo and Warcraft. Multiplayer was more of a added feature that allowed you and your friends to have some fun together.

Starcraft came out. I remember it more for its story than the multiplayer.
Diablo 2 came out. I remember it more for its story than the multiplayer.
Warcraft 3 came out. Same thing there. Dota happened, a mod I enjoyed immensely.

Skip forward to Starcraft 2. What happened to story? Was story sacrificed to have competitive multiplayer?

As I said, all this is my personal opinion and while I am not denying the success that Warcraft 3 and Starcraft has had in the scene, I don't think they ever translated well unlike Starcraft 2 that was built around it. What happened in Korea was purely incidental, it could have been Tetris that became the "national e-sport".

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
smokess
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-08-16 07:46:50 UTC
So, basically, you tried to make money from Eve by selling ISK, decided the ISK>$ conversion wasn't in your favour and you are now trying to argue for Eve to be changed so that you can make a living out of playing the game.

O....k....

With regards to your comment about the number of bots in the game; CCP recently used the ban hammer to nuke a few thousand of them.
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