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Why Off Grid booster nerf won't happen (ever) or won't be what you think

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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#241 - 2012-08-15 20:57:28 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The game would be immediately better, if they removed off grid boosts. Immediately better.


Yes, it would be better for the blobbing combat you FW types like. But for people who like small gangs would be immediately worse.

-Liang


Keep in mind that all the changes the CSM propose are bad and always favor blobs and huge alliances.

Thats because all the CSM members are owners of huge corps/alliances.

Why do you think it costs 600mil a week to wardec goonswarm? It was the CSMs idea.


badpost circa 2010



Why am I not surprised to find out you've never been in a kill that doesn't have 50+ people on it? Lol
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#242 - 2012-08-15 21:03:43 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The game would be immediately better, if they removed off grid boosts. Immediately better.


Yes, it would be better for the blobbing combat you FW types like. But for people who like small gangs would be immediately worse.

-Liang



Battleclinic inicates you are averaging about 5 points per kill, while I am averaging 10 points per kill. This simply means that you tend to have 2xs larger forces per kill than I do.

Not to mention your booster ship isn't even included in your kills. I almost never use one.

Small scale pvp would be vastly improved because these boosters have a larger impact as the size of the gangs goes down.

Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.

Just try walking without the crutch you will be able to do it.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#243 - 2012-08-15 21:04:06 UTC
I had no idea people cared so much about boosting stuff. Smile

MinerBumping.com
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#244 - 2012-08-15 21:07:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.

Just try walking without the crutch you will be able to do it.





Confirming that off-grid boosters can't move systems. Roll
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#245 - 2012-08-15 21:08:49 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Ok there are allot of differences in the risk reward of using officer mods. But the main reason I don't mind people flying with officer mods is I could do it too - without having to dual box alts.

Really I actually like allot of the bonuses boosters offer. I think they add another layer of complexity to eve pvp. I wouldn't mind them if I could get them without dual boxing an alt. For example let me have buy minmatar crew that gives the same bonuses as a loki booster. Then I won't mind - even though they will cost isk. At least I could compete without dual boxing. I just hate hate hate hate dualboxing in a game that I am supposed to be having fun in.


At this point you're trying to argue that having more accounts (whether controlled by one person or not) in an MMO shouldn't give an advantage and thats going to be a tough sell. I've done plenty of small scale pvp in the (admittedly distant) past, even some solo stuff (ask me about taking out an entire BoB t2 frigate gang in an Oneiros some time) but if I'm flying solo and I lose to 2 people thats my fault for engaging outnumbered, not the fault of the 2 people for breaking the non-existant sanctity of the 1v1.

It doesn't matter if those 2 people are 1 guy and an alt or 2 seperate physical people, its still 2v1. All other things being equal 2 on grid ships piloted by different people should beat 1 on grid ship and 1 offgrid booster.



Well I can decide if I want to engage 2 pilots on grid because, well I see two pilots on grid. Thats sort of the point of having boosters....wait for it..... on grid.






What will you do when you can't see a cloaking falcon or a cloaky RR ship?

You don't know if you are going to fight 1 or 2 people.

Then what?


I shoot the falcon or the rr ship because they are ... wait for it.... on grid. BTW you realize they nerfed a falcons range so that they had to be more committed to the combat. Do you think they should extend it back out?

And even if I die, I at least know after the fight not to fight them again. So I avoid them. There aren't that many people who do that and they quickly become well known to the locals.

Who is getting boosts is not so easy to determine.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#246 - 2012-08-15 21:10:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Battleclinic inicates you are averaging about 5 points per kill, while I am averaging 10 points per kill. This simply means that you tend to have 2xs larger forces per kill than I do.

Not to mention your booster ship isn't even included in your kills. I almost never use one.

Small scale pvp would be vastly improved because these boosters have a larger impact as the size of the gangs goes down.

Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.

Just try walking without the crutch you will be able to do it.


A few comments:
- You keep claiming I use off grid boosts. Sometimes this is true, sometimes it is false. I generally don't bother logging in my own links and the Heretic links are offline by the time I log in. I've even repeatedly stated why I dislike logging in my links: it tanks performance for Fraps.
- Confirming that BC points are a good way to measure PVP penises and that people don't abuse the BC point system with faction cruisers and carriers repping Merlins.
- Boosters have a smaller effect as the gang sizes go down. 2 on grid vs 1 on grid/1 off grid highly stacks things in favor of the 2 on grid.
- The FW blobs more than we ever did. Hell, you guys frequently bring in more logis than we have people online.

You keep complaining about how you can't engage frigates in your cruiser and you're the one telling me that I'm relying on a "crutch". Cute.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2012-08-15 21:10:17 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.


He also advocates the use of Falcon alts. I'm so glad he doesn't work for CCP.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#248 - 2012-08-15 21:10:36 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.

Just try walking without the crutch you will be able to do it.





Confirming that off-grid boosters can't move systems. Roll



Not if they are in a pos in your corps home system.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2012-08-15 21:11:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:

I shoot the falcon or the rr ship because they are ... wait for it.... on grid. BTW you realize they nerfed a falcons range so that they had to be more committed to the combat. Do you think they should extend it back out?

And even if I die, I at least know after the fight not to fight them again. So I avoid them. There aren't that many people who do that and they quickly become well known to the locals.

Who is getting boosts is not so easy to determine.


So effectively you're asking for the game to be balanced around your borderline autistic need to know every single variable involved in every fight you ever have. I think you're playing the wrong game.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#250 - 2012-08-15 21:12:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:

I shoot the falcon or the rr ship because they are ... wait for it.... on grid. BTW you realize they nerfed a falcons range so that they had to be more committed to the combat. Do you think they should extend it back out?

And even if I die, I at least know after the fight not to fight them again. So I avoid them. There aren't that many people who do that and they quickly become well known to the locals.

Who is getting boosts is not so easy to determine.


But somehow you think people should just throw their frigates at your cruiser for you to munch on them because you overshipped?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#251 - 2012-08-15 21:13:31 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.


He also advocates the use of Falcon alts. I'm so glad he doesn't work for CCP.


Way to make **** up. You've never seen me advocate Falcon alts. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#252 - 2012-08-15 21:15:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Not if they are in a pos in your corps home system.


So, I know it doesn't suit your biases, but they are not logged in when I am. Feel free to put a covops scout on our POS and check for yourself. But that won't matter because no matter what you'll make up an excuse for how I magically had bonuses and you didn't. And obviously that's why a frig is able to beat your cruiser. Roll

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2012-08-15 21:16:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Way to make **** up. You've never seen me advocate Falcon alts. :)

-Liang


Right. This should have read

Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Diesel47 also advocates the use of Falcon alts. I'm so glad he doesn't work for CCP.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2012-08-15 21:17:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.


He also advocates the use of Falcon alts. I'm so glad he doesn't work for CCP.


Way to make **** up. You've never seen me advocate Falcon alts. :)

-Liang


ECM is totally cheating too
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#255 - 2012-08-15 21:20:26 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Battleclinic inicates you are averaging about 5 points per kill, while I am averaging 10 points per kill. This simply means that you tend to have 2xs larger forces per kill than I do.

Not to mention your booster ship isn't even included in your kills. I almost never use one.

Small scale pvp would be vastly improved because these boosters have a larger impact as the size of the gangs goes down.

Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.

Just try walking without the crutch you will be able to do it.


A few comments:
1)- You keep claiming I use off grid boosts. Sometimes this is true, sometimes it is false. I generally don't bother logging in my own links and the Heretic links are offline by the time I log in. I've even repeatedly stated why I dislike logging in my links: it tanks performance for Fraps.
2)- Confirming that BC points are a good way to measure PVP penises and that people don't abuse the BC point system with faction cruisers and carriers repping Merlins.
3)- Boosters have a smaller effect as the gang sizes go down. 2 on grid vs 1 on grid/1 off grid highly stacks things in favor of the 2 on grid.
4)- The FW blobs more than we ever did. Hell, you guys frequently bring in more logis than we have people online.

You keep complaining about how you can't engage frigates in your cruiser and you're the one telling me that I'm relying on a "crutch". Cute.

-Liang


1)Ok you admit you use them.

2)BC points do tend to show how much you blob. And no I don't use faction cruisers or carriers to rep my merlins. So no dice there.

3)You make a bad comparision about how boosters help less as the gang size increases. Boosters will almost always decide a 1v1 but they won't always decide a 200 v 200.

4) Yeah ok try to dodge the actual facts about your and my actual killboard and just go with your raw assertion. I'm in fw so I want off grid boosting removed to help me blob. Nice.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2012-08-15 21:22:07 UTC
Cearain wrote:

3)You make a bad comparision about how boosters help less as the gang size increases. Boosters will almost always decide a 1v1 but they won't always decide a 200 v 200.


There are no offgrid boosters in a 1v1 unless you have magic guns that can shoot off grid. What you have there is a 1v2.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#257 - 2012-08-15 21:22:58 UTC
Ensign X wrote:

There should be risks and consequences for those people as well. Combat boosting shouldn't work through POS shields. There should be risk involved in providing such a huge boost to your combat capabilities.


What about things like implant sets?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#258 - 2012-08-15 21:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Cearain wrote:

1)Ok you admit you use them.

2)BC points do tend to show how much you blob. And no I don't use faction cruisers or carriers to rep my merlins. So no dice there.

3)You make a bad comparision about how boosters help less as the gang size increases. Boosters will almost always decide a 1v1 but they won't always decide a 200 v 200.

4) Yeah ok try to dodge the actual facts about your and my actual killboard and just go with your raw assertion. I'm in fw so I want off grid boosting removed to help me blob. Nice.


1. You admitted you use links, so we're even on that score.
2. BC points don't show how often you blob and anyone that tries to use them as a serious measure of epeen measurement is :lol: in my book.
3. Talking about boosters in terms of "1v1" is stupid. What you're really talking about is 2v1, so yes I expect the 2 to win (generally). But 2v1+1 is as small as this scale goes - and the advantage is decidedly towards the on grid people.
4. I'm just going by what you say. You don't care about any of the consequences I've brought up - just remove it NAO because "LIFE ISN'T FAIR, A FRIG CAN TAKE ON MY CRUISER QQ, QQ, QQ" :pout:

-Liang

Ed: And the funny thing is that you would assert that the frig has bonuses even if he doesn't. LOL.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#259 - 2012-08-15 21:26:15 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Not if they are in a pos in your corps home system.


So, I know it doesn't suit your biases, but they are not logged in when I am. Feel free to put a covops scout on our POS and check for yourself. But that won't matter because no matter what you'll make up an excuse for how I magically had bonuses and you didn't. And obviously that's why a frig is able to beat your cruiser. Roll

-Liang



Right you don't use off grid boosters but you are so butthurt about the notion that they would be removed that you post in every thread about it.

That makes sense.

Some of the times I know people are using off grid boosters because of the range of their points and the disruptor that showed up on their killmail. I also know because lots of people admit it. Its not really a secret nor is it a crime to use boosters. Hell I am training a booster alt up myself. It sucks that eve is going in this direction, but until they change this rule its alts online or gtfo.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#260 - 2012-08-15 21:38:14 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Cearain wrote:


Face it your off grid booster is a crutch. That is why you rarely pvp outside ammamake. That is why you are in every one of these off grid boosting threads trying to justify an obviously bad mechanic.

Just try walking without the crutch you will be able to do it.





Confirming that off-grid boosters can't move systems. Roll



Not if they are in a pos in your corps home system.


But I thought that you guys were saying OGBs are"virtually riskfree".

So whats the problem? Twisted