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Why Off Grid booster nerf won't happen (ever) or won't be what you think

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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#221 - 2012-08-15 19:39:56 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Quote:

Oh? So I can't have implants? I'm not entitled to use them?

What about faction fits? I thought you said I should faction fit everything? Lol?

How dare I have an advantage?! You are right, I should start every fight with an ibis... That way I won't ever have any advantages over other players. This game is all about fairness after al


Already answered; the statistical advantages from invisible things like faction mods are minor. Even the statistical advantages of things like implants are pretty small relative to cost.


Regardless, there's little point in continuing this since apparently everyone's bitty. CCP and the CSM have already spoken, and OGBs are not going to be here for very long.


You go girl.

Next up "Should ISK be removed from the game?"
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#222 - 2012-08-15 19:40:30 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Quote:

Oh? So I can't have implants? I'm not entitled to use them?

What about faction fits? I thought you said I should faction fit everything? Lol?

How dare I have an advantage?! You are right, I should start every fight with an ibis... That way I won't ever have any advantages over other players. This game is all about fairness after al


Already answered; the statistical advantages from invisible things like faction mods are minor. Even the statistical advantages of things like implants are pretty small relative to cost.


Regardless, there's little point in continuing this since apparently everyone's bitty. CCP and the CSM have already spoken, and OGBs are not going to be here for very long.


You know, they've said a lot of things that haven't come to pass yet. Years later.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#223 - 2012-08-15 19:44:26 UTC
I remember making a suggestion that it should not be possible to activate gang links while inside or within 5k of POS shields a while back. Was immediately flammed. Now people are suggesting pretty much the same thing. Funny.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#224 - 2012-08-15 19:46:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I remember making a suggestion that it should not be possible to activate gang links while inside or within 5k of POS shields a while back. Was immediately flammed. Now people are suggesting pretty much the same thing. Funny.


There's still flaming for that idea. Particularly from Rorq pilots.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#225 - 2012-08-15 19:47:05 UTC
I still don't see whats wrong with POS boosting, if your hitting someone in their home system its kind of expected they have the home field advantage and if your really that bothered about it and just looking for a fight, move the fight one system over or something.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-08-15 19:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Marlona Sky wrote:
I remember making a suggestion that it should not be possible to activate gang links while inside or within 5k of POS shields a while back. Was immediately flammed. Now people are suggesting pretty much the same thing. Funny.


Most of these guys just think what the CSM wants them to think.

If something is called OP by the CSM they make it their personal crusade to make sure that everybody on the forums knows they think its OP. Most of the time they are horribly misinformed.


I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though.


Edit: seems like you hit a nerve there, got three instant quoted replies in 1 minute. lol.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#227 - 2012-08-15 19:51:34 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I remember making a suggestion that it should not be possible to activate gang links while inside or within 5k of POS shields a while back. Was immediately flammed. Now people are suggesting pretty much the same thing. Funny.


Most of these guys just think what the CSM wants them to think.

If something is called OP by the CSM they make it their personal crusade to make sure that everybody on the forums knows they think its OP. Most of the time they are horribly misinformed.


I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though.


Edit: seems like you hit a nerve there, got three instant quoted replies in 1 minute. lol.


I have this thread on subscribe.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Ensign X
#228 - 2012-08-15 20:05:47 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though.


It is. The problem lies with Rorqual pilots, but I don't see a problem with making non-combat links work through a POS shield or, crazy thought, having some consequences for ALL off-grid boosting. Off-grid boosting needs to have risk and consequences attached to it. As it stands, there is no risk or consequences for boosting through a POS shield.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#229 - 2012-08-15 20:17:40 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though.


It is. The problem lies with Rorqual pilots, but I don't see a problem with making non-combat links work through a POS shield or, crazy thought, having some consequences for ALL off-grid boosting. Off-grid boosting needs to have risk and consequences attached to it. As it stands, there is no risk or consequences for boosting through a POS shield.


Some people also boost from POS for PVE, etc.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#230 - 2012-08-15 20:20:19 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though.


It is. The problem lies with Rorqual pilots, but I don't see a problem with making non-combat links work through a POS shield or, crazy thought, having some consequences for ALL off-grid boosting. Off-grid boosting needs to have risk and consequences attached to it. As it stands, there is no risk or consequences for boosting through a POS shield.


Some people also boost from POS for PVE, etc.


I used to sell a service doing exactly that. My booster alts can't get in high sec anymore though... turns out they weren't so "alt" after all. P

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#231 - 2012-08-15 20:44:28 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Ok there are allot of differences in the risk reward of using officer mods. But the main reason I don't mind people flying with officer mods is I could do it too - without having to dual box alts.

Really I actually like allot of the bonuses boosters offer. I think they add another layer of complexity to eve pvp. I wouldn't mind them if I could get them without dual boxing an alt. For example let me have buy minmatar crew that gives the same bonuses as a loki booster. Then I won't mind - even though they will cost isk. At least I could compete without dual boxing. I just hate hate hate hate dualboxing in a game that I am supposed to be having fun in.


At this point you're trying to argue that having more accounts (whether controlled by one person or not) in an MMO shouldn't give an advantage and thats going to be a tough sell. I've done plenty of small scale pvp in the (admittedly distant) past, even some solo stuff (ask me about taking out an entire BoB t2 frigate gang in an Oneiros some time) but if I'm flying solo and I lose to 2 people thats my fault for engaging outnumbered, not the fault of the 2 people for breaking the non-existant sanctity of the 1v1.

It doesn't matter if those 2 people are 1 guy and an alt or 2 seperate physical people, its still 2v1. All other things being equal 2 on grid ships piloted by different people should beat 1 on grid ship and 1 offgrid booster.



Well I can decide if I want to engage 2 pilots on grid because, well I see two pilots on grid. Thats sort of the point of having boosters....wait for it..... on grid.



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#232 - 2012-08-15 20:47:50 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Quote:
And this leads back to what I've been saying: ships that are capable of providing links do not adequately fit into the gangs that really need them. There are some core problems with simply bringing links on the field that must be solved first.


Not arguing that point - merely that off grid boosts are bullshit.


Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.

-Liang



The game would be immediately better, if they removed off grid boosts. Immediately better.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#233 - 2012-08-15 20:50:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
The game would be immediately better, if they removed off grid boosts. Immediately better.


Yes, it would be better for the blobbing combat you FW types like. But for people who like small gangs would be immediately worse.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-08-15 20:50:20 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Ok there are allot of differences in the risk reward of using officer mods. But the main reason I don't mind people flying with officer mods is I could do it too - without having to dual box alts.

Really I actually like allot of the bonuses boosters offer. I think they add another layer of complexity to eve pvp. I wouldn't mind them if I could get them without dual boxing an alt. For example let me have buy minmatar crew that gives the same bonuses as a loki booster. Then I won't mind - even though they will cost isk. At least I could compete without dual boxing. I just hate hate hate hate dualboxing in a game that I am supposed to be having fun in.


At this point you're trying to argue that having more accounts (whether controlled by one person or not) in an MMO shouldn't give an advantage and thats going to be a tough sell. I've done plenty of small scale pvp in the (admittedly distant) past, even some solo stuff (ask me about taking out an entire BoB t2 frigate gang in an Oneiros some time) but if I'm flying solo and I lose to 2 people thats my fault for engaging outnumbered, not the fault of the 2 people for breaking the non-existant sanctity of the 1v1.

It doesn't matter if those 2 people are 1 guy and an alt or 2 seperate physical people, its still 2v1. All other things being equal 2 on grid ships piloted by different people should beat 1 on grid ship and 1 offgrid booster.



Well I can decide if I want to engage 2 pilots on grid because, well I see two pilots on grid. Thats sort of the point of having boosters....wait for it..... on grid.






What will you do when you can't see a cloaking falcon or a cloaky RR ship?

You don't know if you are going to fight 1 or 2 people.

Then what?
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#235 - 2012-08-15 20:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The game would be immediately better, if they removed off grid boosts. Immediately better.


Yes, it would be better for the blobbing combat you FW types like. But for people who like small gangs would be immediately worse.

-Liang


Keep in mind that all the changes the CSM propose are bad and always favor blobs and huge alliances.

Thats because all the CSM members are owners of huge corps/alliances.

Why do you think it costs 600mil a week to wardec goonswarm? It was the CSMs idea.


Nerfing OGbs? They don't want small gangs to be able to be competitive with their blobs.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2012-08-15 20:52:06 UTC
it would terribly damage the unprobable boosting alt style of combat
lol
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2012-08-15 20:52:35 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The game would be immediately better, if they removed off grid boosts. Immediately better.


Yes, it would be better for the blobbing combat you FW types like. But for people who like small gangs would be immediately worse.

-Liang


Keep in mind that all the changes the CSM propose are bad and always favor blobs and huge alliances.

Thats because all the CSM members are owners of huge corps/alliances.

Why do you think it costs 600mil a week to wardec goonswarm? It was the CSMs idea.


badpost circa 2010
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-08-15 20:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
it would terribly damage the unprobable boosting alt style of combat
lol


ignorant post circa 2012

there is no such thing as unprobable
lol
Ensign X
#239 - 2012-08-15 20:52:56 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Ensign X wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though.


It is. The problem lies with Rorqual pilots, but I don't see a problem with making non-combat links work through a POS shield or, crazy thought, having some consequences for ALL off-grid boosting. Off-grid boosting needs to have risk and consequences attached to it. As it stands, there is no risk or consequences for boosting through a POS shield.


Some people also boost from POS for PVE, etc.


There should be risks and consequences for those people as well. Combat boosting shouldn't work through POS shields. There should be risk involved in providing such a huge boost to your combat capabilities.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#240 - 2012-08-15 20:53:10 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
it would terribly damage the unprobable boosting alt style of combat
lol


Let's say it another way: It would immediately and tremendously boost the blob's ability to deal with small gangs that were custom built for engaging larger gangs.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.