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CSM Minutes: Offgrid boosting.
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Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#81 - 2012-08-15 16:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vytone
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"

Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.

The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.

In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-08-15 16:11:32 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Whisperen wrote:
CCP has nerfed offgrid pos boosters already they buffed barges and are introducing alchemy which in turn will drop dread prices. So pos boosters are nerfed all you have to do is organize yourselves but i guess whining on the forums is easier.

I have no idea how your are trying to swing barge boosts into this argument.... But yes. I agree that bringing a few dreads to kill the POS that that the offgrid booster is sitting in would work. At the same time though I have a totally competent leadership alt that has all relevant skills to 5 for a few hundred man fleet to gain boosts off of and never once have I thought "I'm just going to keep him off grid" . . . That is how pussies play. Offgrid boosting is the epitome of sad. Probers, ok. Boosters... eheh.

If you wants the boosts, put them on grid to be blown up just like everything else. If you are to scared to do that or to weak too then go back to WOW. Boosts should be on grid.


Your KB is negative and you are telling people to go back to WOW?

Lol

Off grid boosters die all the time, stop being lazy and learn how to probe.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-08-15 16:13:44 UTC
Vytone wrote:
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"

Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.

The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.

In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.


100% yes.
Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-08-15 16:43:31 UTC
Vytone wrote:
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"

Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.

The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.

In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.


I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge?
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#85 - 2012-08-15 17:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vytone
They might, and that's the point. People should stop whining and utilize the tactics available instead of trying to eliminate them because they don't, won't or can't . And back to your question about the bigger gang having boosts, it happens to us all the time, but we still will usually take the fight, and find a way to be competitive.

Now imagine for a moment we didn't have our boosts, we would be effectively rofflestomped. And then I would be all over the forums crying about bigger gangs using offgrid boosters. Nope not gonna happen. Adapt, diversify, change tactics because the battlefield is an ever changing environment.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-08-15 17:36:23 UTC
Rezig Huruta wrote:
Vytone wrote:
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"

Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.

The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.

In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.


I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge?


Thats also why in my thread in GD I said T3s should only be able to boost for about 5 people.

That way the small do what they love, the big gangs and CS pilots do their job so they shut up, and everybody is happy.
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#87 - 2012-08-15 17:51:49 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Rezig Huruta wrote:
Vytone wrote:
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"

Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.

The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.

In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.


I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge?


Quote:
Thats also why in my thread in GD I said T3s should only be able to boost for about 5 people.

That way the small do what they love, the big gangs and CS pilots do their job so they shut up, and everybody is happy.


I think they work as intended I see no reason to limit anything. Every gang has equal opportunity, but it comes down to being prepared.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-08-15 18:10:22 UTC
Vytone wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Rezig Huruta wrote:
Vytone wrote:
Post with your main please. Unless ofcourse this is your main and in which case i would say how could you have the experience needed to understand what offgrid boosts mean to small gang pvp? I understand you only have 32 kills and 60 or so losses but you really should understand where some other pvpers are coming from through experience and not just, "I hate offgrid boosters cause they can't take damage!, be a man!"

Dude some of us like to pvp outnumbered, or at least like having the ability to compete in pvp outnumbered since we find ourselves outnumbered very often. It's what makes Eve fun, that adrenaline rush during pvp. Now if an offgrid booster gives my gang of 10 the edge it needs to engage a gang of 60 or 70 then how is that imbalaced? If anything it helps to put Eve pvp back into balance.

The blob won't always win because of raw numbers anymore. If you force those boosters ongrid, it won't last 20 seconds, we all know that, but what we are really talking about here is if the small gang can successfully engage the big gang then the big gang must have inexperience, low sp player, pvp'ers with no imagination or intuitive thinking to counter those boosts.

In either case I say learn the game from someone who has some experience and stop whining about mechanics that were put in place rightfully so by CCP to help balance small gang vs. big gang pvp.


I don't know all the ins and outs of boosting, but... wouldn't that big gang of 60-70 you like to fight ALSO have off-grid boosting? Thereby effectively canceling the edge?


Quote:
Thats also why in my thread in GD I said T3s should only be able to boost for about 5 people.

That way the small do what they love, the big gangs and CS pilots do their job so they shut up, and everybody is happy.


I think they work as intended I see no reason to limit anything. Every gang has equal opportunity, but it comes down to being prepared.



I think it would be better if T3s are limited to small gangs, so that the command ship pilots actually get something to do, and they start boosting for a large gang instead of the large gang having a T3.
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#89 - 2012-08-15 18:17:14 UTC
I agree that Command ships should be used more but I think it should get buffed in a way that people that have mains that fly them perfectly like i can, would want to use them without knowing it will die horribly.

If the t3 will be limited to a certain number, i think that number should be somewhere in the 20-30 range. And then buff the crap out the command ships to make then worthwhile.

Information warfare could use an overhaul for sure, maybe they should concentrate on making useless stuff useful instead of making useful stuff useless.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#90 - 2012-08-15 18:35:56 UTC
"It's going to ruin small group PvP." Where have I heard that before? The nano nerf. The Falcon nerf. In fact I hear that argument just about any time somebody's way of playing is threatened with change. And the gloomy prediction doesn't come true. Small group and solo PvP is still alive. A good FC with hardened bastards behind him who know their ships inside and out will always have an advantage.

Hell, T3 boosts haven't always been here. There was PvP before them.
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#91 - 2012-08-15 18:47:09 UTC
Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-08-15 18:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
"It's going to ruin small group PvP." Where have I heard that before? The nano nerf. The Falcon nerf. In fact I hear that argument just about any time somebody's way of playing is threatened with change. And the gloomy prediction doesn't come true. Small group and solo PvP is still alive. A good FC with hardened bastards behind him who know their ships inside and out will always have an advantage.

Hell, T3 boosts haven't always been here. There was PvP before them.


The nano nerf didn't screw small gang pvp over?

What are you talking about?

Small gang pvp now is nothing like it was before the nano nerf.


Small group pvp is alive... but it sucks, and it will suck even more with this OGB nerf.

Soon, the only way to fight is to have 20 friends with you everywhere you go and that is not how I'd like to play the game at all.


Vytone wrote:
Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life.


This.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#93 - 2012-08-15 19:06:30 UTC
I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left.
Vytone
Ganja Labs
Exodus.
#94 - 2012-08-15 19:10:15 UTC
I'm not the one whining fella, its the ones clamoring for the removal of offgrid boosters. Get it straight.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-08-15 19:18:08 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left.



"I'm so l33t and experienced. I'm chestbeating so I can call you a whiner. "
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#96 - 2012-08-15 20:00:23 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left.



"I'm so l33t and experienced. I'm chestbeating so I can call you a whiner. "


I was a low sec noob. I respond with my history so I'm an elitist snob now. Make up your mind. Or do you need 20 friends to help you do that too?
Lili Lu
#97 - 2012-08-15 21:59:14 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left.

+1

Off-grid boosting is simply ********. You want those buffs? they should be on the field and at risk just like everything else that will affect the outcome. It works for both sides. No stashing a booster at a pos or at a ss running eccm.

And finally the command ships will regain their rightful place as the best boosters. The age of the T3 bubble immune cov ops warping etc booster will be over. Frankly it is taking too long, and has been here too long.

Oh yeah, preemptive "I was a low sec noob. I respond with my history so I'm an elitist snob now. Make up your mind." as well.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#98 - 2012-08-15 22:01:20 UTC
Vytone wrote:
They might, and that's the point. People should stop whining and utilize the tactics available instead of trying to eliminate them because they don't, won't or can't . And back to your question about the bigger gang having boosts, it happens to us all the time, but we still will usually take the fight, and find a way to be competitive.


That makes no sense. Then just make all the ships faster and have longer point ranges etc.

Vytone wrote:

Now imagine for a moment we didn't have our boosts, we would be effectively rofflestomped. And then I would be all over the forums crying about bigger gangs using offgrid boosters. Nope not gonna happen. Adapt, diversify, change tactics because the battlefield is an ever changing environment.



You forgot, get your own alt and dual box the game alts online.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#99 - 2012-08-15 22:03:36 UTC
Vytone wrote:
Another FW dude responds. Get into 0.0 and get blobbed and titan bridged on for a change. Go 40 jumps into 0.0 on your regular roams dude and get out of The Bleak Lands for once in your life.



If your big concern is blobs why are you in null sec?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-08-15 22:09:53 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I lived in Null from 2007 till 2011. I ran with the muppet factory. I ran with Am0k. both before and after they joined Goons. I've done small group, large fleets, and solo. And you're whining. Stop whining. It's a done deal so adapt and enjoy the time you have left.

+1

Off-grid boosting is simply ********. You want those buffs? they should be on the field and at risk just like everything else that will affect the outcome. It works for both sides. No stashing a booster at a pos or at a ss running eccm.

And finally the command ships will regain their rightful place as the best boosters. The age of the T3 bubble immune cov ops warping etc booster will be over. Frankly it is taking too long, and has been here too long.

Oh yeah, preemptive "I was a low sec noob. I respond with my history so I'm an elitist snob now. Make up your mind." as well.


Yet another misinformed post.

Stop assuming that OGBs are perfectly safe, because they are not. They are at risk just like anything else. Stop being lazy and learn to probe.

When T3s are limited to only boosting 5 people the command ships can do their jobs of boosting fleets.