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High Sec Hauler Ganking
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#81 - 2012-08-15 13:27:15 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:

My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.


No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#82 - 2012-08-15 13:30:33 UTC
Rigged Viator will not fit in an Orca.

In any case I'm not saying there are not options, I'm saying that for the value and size of the cargo the options for safe hauling are un-necessarily tedious. For a cargo of 210mil I don't think it is unreasonable to want to use an Itty V and expect to get it to get safely to its destination. (excluding the low sec part ofc).



Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#83 - 2012-08-15 13:32:14 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:

My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.


No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.


.. and would still be insta popped by any Tornado that wanted to.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-08-15 13:34:12 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Rigged Viator will not fit in an Orca.

Oh re-he-heally?

Funny how I keep doing that all the time. I must be playing another game.

Kal'Orellian wrote:
In any case I'm not saying there are not options, I'm saying that for the value and size of the cargo the options for safe hauling are un-necessarily tedious. For a cargo of 210mil I don't think it is unreasonable to want to use an Itty V and expect to get it to get safely to its destination. (excluding the low sec part ofc).

You're wrong.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Velicitia
XS Tech
#85 - 2012-08-15 13:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Lord Zim wrote:

Kal'Orellian wrote:
In any case I'm not saying there are not options, I'm saying that for the value and size of the cargo the options for safe hauling are un-necessarily tedious. For a cargo of 210mil I don't think it is unreasonable to want to use an Itty V and expect to get it to get safely to its destination. (excluding the low sec part ofc).

You're wrong.



I dunno, 210m in a tanked Itty V is safe enough, provided you stay off the "main roads" ... granted it's a stupid risk, but where's the fun if there's no risk to your hauling?

Edit --> sidenote, I fly with a scout when doing stupid stuff.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-08-15 13:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
[Occator, Occator fit]

Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

[Empty High slot]

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I

35k m3 Cargo, gank-safe to single Tornado (you need minimum 2 with right ammo, all V skills and 2 +5 imps, so 3-4 more realistically). Replace rigs or some low-slots for more passive protection and you will still get 20+km3 and they will need to use even more Nado's to blow you up.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#87 - 2012-08-15 14:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'Orellian
Lord Zim wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Rigged Viator will not fit in an Orca.

Oh re-he-heally?

Funny how I keep doing that all the time. I must be playing another game.

Kal'Orellian wrote:
In any case I'm not saying there are not options, I'm saying that for the value and size of the cargo the options for safe hauling are un-necessarily tedious. For a cargo of 210mil I don't think it is unreasonable to want to use an Itty V and expect to get it to get safely to its destination. (excluding the low sec part ofc).

You're wrong.


What part of "this is my opinion" do you not understand? it's not a question of being right or wrong. Currently its not safe to move 210mil in a an Itty V through hi sec. In my opinion it should be. If you don't agree then thats your opinion. I don't agree with you but I'm not going to state that you are wrong. The whole point of this forum is to debate such things so that CCP can guage the views of the player base.

I happily stand corrected on the Viator in the Orca thing, though I still feel its a lot of hassel to move a smalll cargo.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#88 - 2012-08-15 14:16:39 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
[Occator, Occator fit]

Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

[Empty High slot]

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I

35k m3 Cargo, gank-safe to single Tornado (you need minimum 2 with right ammo, all V skills and 2 +5 imps, so 3-4 more realistically). Replace rigs or some low-slots for more passive protection and you will still get 20+km3 and they will need to use even more Nado's to blow you up.


I'm not doubting you, but you should have a T1 variant, like the Procurer is the t1 version of the Skiff, both with BS level EHP.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-08-15 14:57:48 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
What part of "this is my opinion" do you not understand? it's not a question of being right or wrong. Currently its not safe to move 210mil in a an Itty V through hi sec. In my opinion it should be. If you don't agree then thats your opinion. I don't agree with you but I'm not going to state that you are wrong. The whole point of this forum is to debate such things so that CCP can guage the views of the player base.

You're presenting things as facts.

Kal'Orellian wrote:
I happily stand corrected on the Viator in the Orca thing, though I still feel its a lot of hassel to move a smalll cargo.

I'm sure diamond transporters and money transporters think it's a lot of hassle to move a small cargo when they have to use armed guards, but they still suck it up.

As to defining using an orca as "hassle" ... no, it's not. You end up doing fewer jumps for more cargo. It's not a hassle.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#90 - 2012-08-15 15:03:53 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:

My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.


No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.


.. and would still be insta popped by any Tornado that wanted to.


Wow! A tornado can output 15,000 alpha, can it?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#91 - 2012-08-15 15:07:03 UTC
[Iteron Mark V, Itty5]

Damage Control II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


I'll admit, this is a terribad fit...

22k EHP, 22.8k cargohold as compared to the 32k EHP/35k cargohold (note, EHP calc'd using omni-damage... obviously hitting the EM resist hole on the Occator will severely impact your EHP).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-08-15 15:07:47 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
I dunno, 210m in a tanked Itty V is safe enough, provided you stay off the "main roads" ... granted it's a stupid risk, but where's the fun if there's no risk to your hauling?

Edit --> sidenote, I fly with a scout when doing stupid stuff.

The problem is that Kal'Orellian wants CCP to make changes to the haulers so he doesn't have to tank his itty V and still fly afk to jita with a 210m load, and not risk getting ganked.

Taking precautions, tanking the iteron 5, using a scout, etc, makes using an iteron 5 for hauling that kind of load just fine, but again, that's not what Kal'Orellian wants to do.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Velicitia
XS Tech
#93 - 2012-08-15 15:19:09 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

... still fly afk to jita...


Tanked or not, that's your problem right there.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Meolyne
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-08-15 15:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Meolyne
Ahhhh Sh*t !
I must admit Robert C. has right somehow.
don't put 400M in 1M ship.

too bad he's raging every time he speaks.

A transport ship (or blockade runner) urgeing in high sec will get attention, and if you're playing only in trade hub, be prepared to get popped while docking.
"Docking Request Accepted" still allow player to shoot you. even at 0meter of station (lag, dear lag...)

obviously if you keep whining about that, you'll get some slots on freighters someday RollWhat?LolTwisted

but for now, don't put 1b in an ibis, and secure your travels.

in RL, High-Value Assets has ALWAYS an escort / scout.

you are not valuable, you can be car-jacked.
Yes we're in 2012, not 1012, but ... heh.
But at least, flagged criminals can be arrested anytime, even after 15mn, and even if he's naked. That a good point for RL.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-08-15 15:59:58 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:

What part of "this is my opinion" do you not understand?.


Contrary to what they teach kids these days, its totally possible for your opinion to be wrong.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#96 - 2012-08-15 16:02:13 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
I dunno, 210m in a tanked Itty V is safe enough, provided you stay off the "main roads" ... granted it's a stupid risk, but where's the fun if there's no risk to your hauling?

Edit --> sidenote, I fly with a scout when doing stupid stuff.

The problem is that Kal'Orellian wants CCP to make changes to the haulers so he doesn't have to tank his itty V and still fly afk to jita with a 210m load, and not risk getting ganked.

Taking precautions, tanking the iteron 5, using a scout, etc, makes using an iteron 5 for hauling that kind of load just fine, but again, that's not what Kal'Orellian wants to do.


I dont think 200mil is an especially large amount. It is my opinion that you should be safe in hi sec with a cargo like that. Either by buffing haulers or making high sec ganking more expensive. Preferably both.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-08-15 16:07:18 UTC
Kal'Orellian wrote:
I dont think 200mil is an especially large amount. It is my opinion that you should be safe in hi sec with a cargo like that. Either by buffing haulers or making high sec ganking more expensive. Preferably both.

Orca.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#98 - 2012-08-15 16:07:29 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:

My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.


No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.


.. and would still be insta popped by any Tornado that wanted to.


Wow! A tornado can output 15,000 alpha, can it?


Could you confirm this please Kal'Orellian. I find it amazing but will take your word for it if that is the case.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#99 - 2012-08-15 16:15:50 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:

My point here is that hauling safely is ridiculously hard hard for such as small cargo value as 210mil with medium sized volumes.


No, your point is it's ridiculously hard to haul AFK safely. You could have easily done it if you were actively flying the ship in any tech I hauler. For example, you could have used an Iteron V with 2 WCS and a bit of tank and still managed 12,000m3 easily.


.. and would still be insta popped by any Tornado that wanted to.


Wow! A tornado can output 15,000 alpha, can it?


Could you confirm this please Kal'Orellian. I find it amazing but will take your word for it if that is the case.


I am not an EFT warrior, so no idea what sort of EHP you can put on an iterron. But I'd be very surprised if you can get this sort of tank on an Itty V and have much cargo room left. It would have to be passive as well as there is danger in the aling time even when actively piloting. On the one occassion I was got I was dead instantly after declaoking, I had obviously been passive scanned in the previous systems. Even if I had expected the hit I doubt I would have had time to activate hardeners.
Kal'Orellian
Kyokushin Corporation
Muh Zkill...
#100 - 2012-08-15 16:17:47 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Kal'Orellian wrote:
I dont think 200mil is an especially large amount. It is my opinion that you should be safe in hi sec with a cargo like that. Either by buffing haulers or making high sec ganking more expensive. Preferably both.

Orca.


Rinse and repeat... yes I know there are options for safe hauling but you shouldn't need to invest in this sort of ship in terms of isk and skills in order to move low volume cargo safely.