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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#221 - 2012-08-15 04:57:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Patrick Estemaire wrote:
EVE does have a 'safe zone', it's the inside of a station.


Even in a station you can be scammed.


I've lost more ISK inside a station than anywhere else.... but not to scamming. Market PVP is like PVPing with entire fleets full of faction fit macharials. AT THE SAME TIME...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#222 - 2012-08-15 05:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
So, ive spent the last week trying to figure out this statement by CCP

"We don't interfere in EvE Because its is a player driven PVP game"

Right, taken that information in and assessed it, result, you what?

You say that EvE is PvP driven, i fail to see that.

Wether or not people admit it, the majority of ships and ammo are produced by EMPIRE based corporations selling at market hubs. Then hulkageddon comes in, the corps stop mining, thousands quit (which they have) and the prices of everything sky rockets. PvP in null drops off to the point where Null Sec generally is dead and empty apart from hubs where alliance members congagrate like puppies around its mother.

However, there is a massive rise in ganking in empire, the question is why? The answer is simple, guarenteed kill on the KB, concord kills you, that doesnt show up on the killboards and you get 100mil+ of loot from haulers. So why risk your ass in null when you can do it easily in empire? You wouldnt. But the penalty for this action is tiny. So there is no *risk vs reward* factor involved.

So you have mining, npc faction missions, epic arc missions, ded sites, anomolys, scannable sites, pve to the max, my question is this

This is a not a PVP DRIVEN game, it is an all round game and right now we have half the player base trying to make the rest of the playerbase (the pve pilots) play as they do i.e *mummy he wont play with me, make him play with me*.

So why do u maintain the fiction that it is? Why do you not PROTECT PAYING CUSTOMERS who have no interest in PvP as a whole and just like to make ISK and have fun THERE WAY.

Why? If you want it to be a PVP game, set 3 systems in each empire as safe zones and make the rest null sec. Force people to join alliances and to PvP, the answer is you can't because if everyone on this server was fighting non stop, your server would fail misrably. Why do you not protect the players who want to play a game they pay for there way?

No doubt this will get trolled by every forum idiot but the point is valid

If you want a PvP game, remove the PvE content, revamp the game and make it pure PVP, stop screwing people over, take there money and laugh when they get ganked for no reason at all other than they have a cov ops in there hauler there moving to there new home.

PvP pilots need to sod off back to null sec and leave empire pilots alone to there own business.

Period.

Me thinks OP might not be entirely honest with us...

Or maybe it's himself he is running away from.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#223 - 2012-08-15 05:59:41 UTC
New and exciting

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#224 - 2012-08-15 06:04:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Every activity in eve involves PVP. CCP is 100% correct while much of what you put is just flat out wrong.


Every activity in Eve also involves PvE.

Ain't that a *****?
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#225 - 2012-08-15 06:27:19 UTC
There is no non-consensual PvP in EVE, when you undock from a station you are consenting to PvP. I wish CCP would have a pop up that ask you when you undock from a station, do you consent to non-consensual PvP [yes] [no] if no you go straight to the room for a 10 minute time out. P

Empire, the next new world order.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#226 - 2012-08-15 06:39:26 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
I have to assume that the OP is new to New Eden. Welcome to EvE sir. I hope you enjoy your day.

If you don't mind I would like to ask you a couple of questions about why you decided to try this game.

What is because of something like this?

Or was it something more like this?

Just curious.


Personally.. I want to be the person who BUILT that fleet. I want to be the person who can say.. that battle in XX-503.. that fleet.. I organised it's construction, I organised it's deployment, made sure those 700 of my closest best personal bro's got their ship so they could go out there and blow the snot out of those damn -insert enemy here- idiots.
As for the losses, well, they've already been replaced. We can afford to lose half a fleet like we did there and still hold the field.
We have 3 more fleets just like that one ready to go, and more coming in.

As been pointed out very nicely in page 2 ( I didn't bother to read further ) by Tippia, this game is all about PvP. PvP however does not encompass just pew pewing eachother's brains out. 25% of the people may have joined eve for the pew pew, but a LOOOT of people joined EvE because of it's single shard/everythign affecting everything gameplay. This is in essence also PvP, it's more 'white collar' PvP instead of the run of the mill pew pew, but it's PvP nonetheless. It's the best kind imho, as it's the kind that requires real thought, planning, strategy, and above all, teamwork.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#227 - 2012-08-15 09:43:51 UTC
Well I started out and remained an industrious PvE type character for many years in Eve and ultimatly what brought me to PvP was the competition over market control.

Without naming names for the benefit of the OP who is under the impression, mining, manufacuring, mission running and the like are "PvE" activities.

I had a small crew and we where looking for some kind of good, steady way to earn ISK. We discovered a small out of the way low sec system where planned to run mining operations. This system was next door to a very minor trading hub, frequented by small groups of pirates who seemed to go through a ton of ammo and T1 frigates.

We started mining, starting manufacuring and started selling... all was golden. That is until we realized that there was another corp who was strip mining the belts and challenging our prices at every turn in the small trading hub. Initially we tried to out mine and out price them, but in the end we just killed the whole operation because the price war was benefiting no one except the pirates who ultimatly would be trying to kill us on a nightly basis with our own cheaply sold ammos and ships.

In the end we traded in our mining ships for T1 frigates and Cruisers and started attacking the miners. In time they refered to us as a pirate corp full of griefers.

I think it was than that I realized that this is the best game ever made and that it was in fact a PvP game, but PvP didn't stand for "combat" because god knows we sucked at it, but it simply stood for player vs. player competition and we ultimatly escalated that competition from the arena of competative marketing and mining ... to shooting at each other.

I think it takes a while for new players to make that connection as is clear with this OP and perhaps as a community we (players that have been around for a while) should guide rather than flame new players? Just an idea.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Jess Maine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#228 - 2012-08-15 09:48:20 UTC
after 5 or so threads, I still don't think this guy gets it.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#229 - 2012-08-15 10:02:27 UTC
Jess Maine wrote:
after 5 or so threads, I still don't think this guy gets it.


Probobly true, but reckognize that for every person that posts, their are dozens that simply read. More people that read it and get it the better. But if you come to a forum with a post like the OPS and all anyone does is flame him for having an opinion, it ultimatly benefits no one. So I think its worth always replying to these posts, giving our personal experiances and reframe from burning the guy into early retirment. I think Eve players forget that every time someone quits this game, CCP makes a little less money, does a little less developing and Eve dies a little.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-08-15 10:03:32 UTC
It's really hard to figure out if Taranius De Consolville is a brilliant troll or just completely clueless...

Taranius De Consolville threads seems seem to follow the same pattern, they start with his "constructive critique" followed to page after page with people laughing they butts off.


Taranius De Consolville you never fail to amaze and amuse.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#231 - 2012-08-15 10:20:19 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Every activity in Eve also involves PvE.
…such as?
Zera Kerrigan
The 420th Token
#232 - 2012-08-15 10:36:17 UTC
Quote:
You say that EvE is PvP driven, i fail to see that.

Condition: Stupidity.
Cure: Non.

I'm sorry for ya mate.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-08-15 10:40:33 UTC
OP seem not to understand where those ISK he is making by hisec activity are going from and why anyone would repeatedly buy what he produce.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#234 - 2012-08-15 10:54:13 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
ninja-whine about suicide ganking it seems to me.

I do agree though, high-sec needs to be nerfed: too much "risk-free" PVE content in it.


most hilarious post in a while...
there's no such thing as "risk-free". you can be ganked anywhere, at any time, in any situation other than being docked in a station.

you're either tripping or incredibly stupid(which the EVE community seems to be) to think highsec space is safe.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2012-08-15 10:56:59 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
ninja-whine about suicide ganking it seems to me.

I do agree though, high-sec needs to be nerfed: too much "risk-free" PVE content in it.


most hilarious post in a while...
there's no such thing as "risk-free". you can be ganked anywhere, at any time, in any situation other than being docked in a station.

you're either tripping or incredibly stupid(which the EVE community seems to be) to think highsec space is safe.

substitute risk for effort, and you're golden.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#236 - 2012-08-15 11:02:21 UTC
Hisec is relatively safe, if you're aware of your surroundings, don't haul billions in untanked ships, and accept that absolutely everybody can and will gank you given the opportunity.

TL;DR
Stupid explodes ships, paranoia is a valid response.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Anunzi
Solace Corp
#237 - 2012-08-15 11:07:10 UTC
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
So, ive spent the last week trying to figure out this statement by CCP

"We don't interfere in EvE Because its is a player driven PVP game"

Right, taken that information in and assessed it, result, you what?

You say that EvE is PvP driven, i fail to see that.

Wether or not people admit it, the majority of ships and ammo are produced by EMPIRE based corporations selling at market hubs. Then hulkageddon comes in, the corps stop mining, thousands quit (which they have) and the prices of everything sky rockets. PvP in null drops off to the point where Null Sec generally is dead and empty apart from hubs where alliance members congagrate like puppies around its mother.

However, there is a massive rise in ganking in empire, the question is why? The answer is simple, guarenteed kill on the KB, concord kills you, that doesnt show up on the killboards and you get 100mil+ of loot from haulers. So why risk your ass in null when you can do it easily in empire? You wouldnt. But the penalty for this action is tiny. So there is no *risk vs reward* factor involved.

So you have mining, npc faction missions, epic arc missions, ded sites, anomolys, scannable sites, pve to the max, my question is this

This is a not a PVP DRIVEN game, it is an all round game and right now we have half the player base trying to make the rest of the playerbase (the pve pilots) play as they do i.e *mummy he wont play with me, make him play with me*.

So why do u maintain the fiction that it is? Why do you not PROTECT PAYING CUSTOMERS who have no interest in PvP as a whole and just like to make ISK and have fun THERE WAY.

Why? If you want it to be a PVP game, set 3 systems in each empire as safe zones and make the rest null sec. Force people to join alliances and to PvP, the answer is you can't because if everyone on this server was fighting non stop, your server would fail misrably. Why do you not protect the players who want to play a game they pay for there way?

No doubt this will get trolled by every forum idiot but the point is valid

If you want a PvP game, remove the PvE content, revamp the game and make it pure PVP, stop screwing people over, take there money and laugh when they get ganked for no reason at all other than they have a cov ops in there hauler there moving to there new home.

PvP pilots need to sod off back to null sec and leave empire pilots alone to there own business.

Period.




You fail to see it… then proceed to build your entire argument on a concept you admit you cant comprehend.

Wow.

You are either the greatest troll ever to wander these boards (and that quite a statement given some of the grade A trolls we have here) or, you are just a small minded fool who has no concept of what EVE actually is.

The best part is you are genuinely trying to disagree with CCP over the definition of THEIR game, that’s some top notch “special snowflake” arrogance there Sparky.

"It was the way she said it, Rimmer, to rhyme with scum"
Tiger Would
Doomheim
#238 - 2012-08-15 11:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger Would
Taranius,

I do not agree with most you are saying.
If anything, there seem to be 1 subject always coming back in your threads.

You kind of keep pointing at "griefing".
And there are gameplays that could be considered "griefing".

But the line between "griefing" and applying ....ehm....injecting "fear", "ideas", "views".....is very grey.
The few clear differences where there is no doubt whether it is griefing, are bannable offenses.

I am offering you the following view:

You are now part of a alliance CEO board.
Over the years you have streamlined its operations, attracted people you like flying with.
You also carefully and painstakingly put all procedures in place, staged fleets.....

....Long story short......You reached the point where you are now a empire builder.

The depth of EvE gameplay does not lie here perse.
The depth you are now looking at is, diplomacy, strategy, ......but also...for example.....influencing the "world view" of "your" citizens or potential opponents.....

Which is also regarded PvP

You now start looking at cornering markets to cripple your opponents or potential opponents.

And even this is just a greater outline of things you could/would start doing once you are a empire builder......
(Why is Amarr empire Amarr empire, the storyline/its "lore" here feeds you the view upon this empire, when you are the empire builder, you create the lore for that empire......)

The cool thing is, each play style is needed in the game to support the other, new emerging game plays always find a antithesis........than there is synthesis......and a new thesis is born again.

....In a "perfect" world....."New Eden"....

It is all PvP, but not in a way you might interpret it.
It is NOT FPS style PvP or WoW style.

If anything......it is a real life style.....

where you also carefully manufacture a corporations image.......think about that....

How would you manufacture a corporation image which suits your empire and protects your empire?

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#239 - 2012-08-15 11:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryss Darkdust
Well lets just say it though and I think this is the important distinction between this game vs. other MMO's.

Eve is a game in which risk vs. reward is not controlled by the mechanic. So the conversations about Risk Vs. Reward in Eve are often a bit non-sensical since no amount of nurfing or changes short of mirroring other MMO's (Simply turn on and off aggression in safe zones) will change that. As long as players are behind the risk, risk and reward will always be extremely dynamic.

Just a case in point. Me and my crew have been doing a lot of wormhole tresspassing latetly. We made hundreds of millions in a matter of days with zero risk to us. There where no aggerssors and the night before last we even found a wormhole where the occupants simply agreed to let us farm in their wormhole!

Than .. suddenly last night, after getting comfertable in farming wormholes for hundreds of millions we run into some people who decided... hell no, you MF are going to die.... and die we did. We foolishly got caught on our way back in a intradictor bubble and ended up losing a Vulture, Naga and a T1 frigate ... losing at least 300+ million ISK.

Hence an enviroment that had been risk free for days suddenly turned into a deadly high risk one.

That's Eve. We didn't cry, complain, or demand a change to mechanics.... we simply agreed that we got careless and where provided with reminder that in Eve ... Risk vs. Reward is dynamic and frankly it was the most exciting moment we had all week and given the opertunity I would have bought those bastards a beer for cleaning my cloak!

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Velicitia
XS Tech
#240 - 2012-08-15 12:14:27 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
(Stuff)


This guy gets it. Pretty much the same thing (sans lowsec) broke my "it's not fair" mentality...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia