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Lasers. Names. Changes. Please read before reaching for your weapons.

First post
Author
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-08-14 23:25:37 UTC
Tragedy wrote:
I dont care as long as you dont name every module in the game limited experimental protocrap I'm happy.


edit: definetely keep tachyon.


Why, yes. Yes I DID like and quote this person to show my support.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#122 - 2012-08-15 00:16:07 UTC
/votes CCP FoxFour for Empress of Amarr

Laser names have been wonky for AGES

"Small" armor repairer, "Small" Nosferatu, "Medium" lasers ???

THANK YOU!
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko
#123 - 2012-08-15 05:29:59 UTC
CCP FoxFour

1. Maybe, set meta-level as number directly in name (as it was with mining upgrade)
2. Maybe, not so unified? What if:

mundane laser (meta 1)
imperial laser
saint laser
heavenly laser (meta 4)

In Matara, respectively
Rusty Gun (meta 1)
renovated gun
new gun
blue tapedun (meta 4)

it will be better for backstory reasons? Why these nations use common names? :)
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#124 - 2012-08-15 10:53:51 UTC
Marcus Gideon wrote:
/votes CCP FoxFour for Empress of Amarr

Laser names have been wonky for AGES

"Small" armor repairer, "Small" Nosferatu, "Medium" lasers ???

THANK YOU!


You're welcome. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#125 - 2012-08-15 10:57:20 UTC
Paul Clancy wrote:
CCP FoxFour

1. Maybe, set meta-level as number directly in name (as it was with mining upgrade)


Not sure what you mean by this. The mining laser upgrades currently look as so:
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Erin Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 1)
Elara Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 2)
Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 3)
Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 4)
Mining Laser Upgrade II

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Kakk0 Warui
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2012-08-15 11:33:44 UTC
Why not look to science for laser naming conventions. Scientist just love to give things neat labels! And as I make laser sub-systems for a living...

Laser types:

Solid state, Semi-conductor, Metal vapor, Dye, Gas, and Chemical

I *think* that list is in order of power of laser, lowest to highest. fyi I work with Semi-conductor lasers.
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#127 - 2012-08-15 11:45:17 UTC
Breaking away from the naming conventions for a second, I like the way the T2 module icons are illustrated with the yellow (II) in the corner.
Perhaps this could be extended for T1 module meta level, maybe a red corner with 1 to 4 denoting its meta level? This could be easily extended to all faction/officer mods with their respective green/blue corner 'tags'.

This would enable an 'at a glance' assesment of all modules in the item hangar, or allow for much quicker looting of the valuable modules from a player wreck without reading the name of every item.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Seetesh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-08-15 11:57:53 UTC
The changes are good and in keeping with previous changes. Might be a good idea at some point to recommend some form of ingame chart or information sheet that compares multiple laser types just to assit younger players. I prefer to keep with the complex nature of eve for the most part since 2003 but these changes are acceptable.
Aurum Gallente
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-08-15 12:31:28 UTC
Maybe you just make all guns "elven bow D-grade+3", "dark elven bow C-grade+5" Evil? Don't change lasers or other gun's names, it's all part of eve world that I loved when I was noob and discovered it for myself. Very very bad idea. In other case I probably find another game.
I recommend use tips with meta-lvl and nothing more.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#130 - 2012-08-15 12:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Holland
Wasn't there already a thread on renaming lasers???

Modal used in different places to mean different things ('Scout' worked in a similar way between railguns and atrillery) is something I'd prefer to retain personally - although with the continued unification of all naming conventions everywhere the reasoning looks less and less sound.


[Edit] Yep...
here...
[/edit]
Aurum Gallente
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-08-15 12:41:29 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Paul Clancy wrote:
CCP FoxFour

1. Maybe, set meta-level as number directly in name (as it was with mining upgrade)


Not sure what you mean by this. The mining laser upgrades currently look as so:
Mining Laser Upgrade I
Erin Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 1)
Elara Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 2)
Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 3)
Aoede Mining Laser Upgrade (meta 4)
Mining Laser Upgrade II


He means this.
Word "meta" you can delete. And think about put it just in hovering tips or use another color or italic font for meta-number. Renaming lasers is bad idea.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#132 - 2012-08-15 12:44:17 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Wasn't there already a thread on renaming lasers???

Modal used in different places to mean different things ('Scout' worked in a similar way between railguns and atrillery) is something I'd prefer to retain personally - although with the continued unification of all naming conventions everywhere the reasoning looks less and less sound.


[Edit] Yep...
here...
[/edit]


Yes indeed. I read through every post in that thread before putting together my plan. :) The person originally going to do that back then ended up getting busy with other things, so I am picking it up now.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#133 - 2012-08-15 12:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
If you want to make meta levels clear, just add them to the name as a version number, excluding T2 and faction. So, Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I.4; Experimental 1MN Afterburner I.3

It's search-friendly, it's newbie-friendly, it's clean, and it saves you from wanting to homogenize how different manufacturers in different empires talk about different kinds of technology, or else committing obscenities like renaming Gremlin Rockets even though that's a separate issue (for which you're already doomed to a heavy sentence as an accomplice in international courts, come the revolution.) Actually it's also veteran friendly: I care about that number in right-click show info attributes tab scroll down more than I care about (or remember) a lot of names in the game. Like, I've looked up that AB's meta level three times this week.

And it would streamline this: right-click show info, variations tab. OK, I want the highest meta level of this mod that doesn't cost too much. But these aren't in order of meta level, and the names don't suggest the meta level, and I don't remember what's what. So, right-click show info, attributes tab, scroll down, find the meta level, go back to the variations tab, right-click view market details, repeat. This would just become, start with meta 4, right-click view market details, right-click on meta 3 view market details, decide on one or the other, done.

EDIT: !!! - right, that AB is the old Cold Gas AB. Back when it was named Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters, I used to always know that what I wanted if I wanted a small AB was the cold-gas one. Now that it's has this 'helpful' name, I don't regard it as having a name at all, and just go straight to the meta level.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#134 - 2012-08-15 12:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Barging in a bit late into the discussion; while I'd like for module names to "make sense" I wouldn't want to lose the coolness of having different names. Having every meta turret have the same base name makes things too homogeneous, too bland&boring. Lasers should have something "lasery" in their name and projectiles should have a "weaponsmithy" nomenclature. While making everything on par and viable (balance wise) makes good sense, making everything the same does not. Same goes for the names.

Ytterblum could probably tell you all about laser types (even though he spelled it wrong :P) but have a look here for some inspiration.

p.s. I'm no fan of adding meta into the name itself, the names would get too long (or you'd have to leave out the fun part of the name and just make it boring) and it would feel too spreadsheet-like. Being able to sort the variations, market etc on meta lvl would suffice.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#135 - 2012-08-15 13:02:11 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Barging in a bit late into the discussion; while I'd like for module names to "make sense" I wouldn't want to lose the coolness of having different names. Having every meta turret have the same base name makes things too homogeneous, too bland&boring. Lasers should have something "lasery" in their name and projectiles should have a "weaponsmithy" nomenclature. While making everything on par and viable (balance wise) makes good sense, making everything the same does not. Same goes for the names.

Ytterblum could probably tell you all about laser types (even though he spelled it wrong :P) but have a look here for some inspiration.

p.s. I'm no fan of adding meta into the name itself, the names would get too long (or you'd have to leave out the fun part of the name and just make it boring) and it would feel too spreadsheet-like. Being able to sort the variations, market etc on meta lvl would suffice.


Not late at all. Still gathering lots of information and thinking about the best way to do this. All input welcome. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#136 - 2012-08-15 13:48:00 UTC
Hey FoxFour - i think switching to the numeric numbering scheme is a good idea - except for tachyon.. keep tachyon in their name.. even if they're like "100GW Tachyon Enhanced Beam Lasers"

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.

Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
#137 - 2012-08-15 13:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sovai Elaaren
I'll chime in here as I did with the previous renaming initiatives.

I agree that making things more clear is an excellent idea. However, just slapping on the same nomenclature as is used on other modules that perform a completely different function is the wrong way to go about it. This is an opportunity to keep the style in eve but make it easier at the same time, not make it more bland.

As was mentioned previously, pick a standard that makes sense for lasers, a standard for projectiles that makes sense for them, etc. The suggestion as stands will mean that for my cheap t1 frig I pick a limited gun and a limited mwd and a limited hardener, and while I'm at it, I'll pick the limited Gallente Combat Frigate, limited damage control, limited Antimatter ammo... It doesn't seem like a complex, richly detailed universe anymore, it seems like we couldn't think of any better way to standardize so we did the same thing for everything.

At the end of the day, it's a small thing and it won't significantly affect gameplay or anything, but there's an opportunity to do things in a way that accomplishes both goals of improving usability and keeping the feel of a rich and complex virtual world.
Renier Gaden
Immortal Guides
#138 - 2012-08-15 14:26:29 UTC
I like “Strobe”. It is a lighting effect that described this laser configuration clearly. “Gatling” reminds me of a real life autocannon.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#139 - 2012-08-15 14:44:22 UTC
While we're on the subject of weapon naming, how about removing the word "Artillery" from some of the Autocannon names?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#140 - 2012-08-15 14:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
Kuehnelt wrote:
If you want to make meta levels clear, just add them to the name as a version number, excluding T2 and faction. So, Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I.4; Experimental 1MN Afterburner I.3

........

EDIT: !!! - right, that AB is the old Cold Gas AB. Back when it was named Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters, I used to always know that what I wanted if I wanted a small AB was the cold-gas one. Now that it's has this 'helpful' name, I don't regard it as having a name at all, and just go straight to the meta level.


That suggestion is perfect IMHO for Meta resolution.

So, using various suggestions I've seen so far, alternate schemes :

Light Pulse Laser I
Anode Light Pulse Laser I.1
Modal Light Pulse Laser I.2
Afocal Light Pulse Laser I.3
Modulated Light Pulse Laser I.4
Light Pulse Laser II


Clean, simple, module name is placed at end, so you can search "Light Pulse Laser" and get all meta types, if you want all T1s you can just do 'Light Pulse Laser I.', if you want T2, you just put 'II' at the end.

I think changing the anode, modal, etc is fine as long as you replace them with something better, more consistent or cooler.

If you insist on using the new conventions, then you can still wrap it in (I left flavor designators in this case)

Light Pulse Laser I
Upgraded Anode Light Pulse Laser I.1
Limited Modal Light Pulse Laser I.2
Experimental Afocal Light Pulse Laser I.3
Prototype Modulated Light Pulse Laser I.4
Light Pulse Laser II

I find that a bit of an eyeful to really enjoy. But, I think it's pretty sexy still.

There may be a better way than just I.1, but it's a step in the right direction.


And, I agree. When you start using the "Upgraded" designators alone, it basically doesn't have a name anymore.

Where I am.