These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The new Mackinkaw, new king miner, better than a hauler, all in one, afk mining machine.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#201 - 2012-08-14 14:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
People who are complaining that Macks make haulers obsolete aren't paying attention.

The ore hold on a Mack only holds ore. Nothing else. Not even refined minerals (I think). So your haulers are still the only way to carry other stuff. The big Mack ore hold does have a major advantage over a belt-hauler: it frees up that person to do more productive stuff (like run a mining laser in another barge). I still find that it's sometimes more productive to jetcan mine when you have an Orca, but in that scenario I'd be using a Hulk and not a Mack anyway.

The Mack is a great hisec mining boat, but it doesn't magically make mining a lot more profitable. Mining is still a sucker's game if you're doing it solo. You can make more ISK/hr doing almost anything else in the game.
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#202 - 2012-08-14 14:32:42 UTC
Not necessarily more profitable, though less ganking and more AFK mining will probably lead to bigger yields.

MinerBumping.com
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2012-08-14 14:32:57 UTC
OP: Your usage analysis only means that the Mackinaw's role (a solo miner) is VERY well received and that the solo role is the most popular role. Also, all the miners you got a screen snap of are solo miners. This does not mean that the changes were bad. It means that they worked and made a lot of miners so happy that they bought and/or rebuilt Mackinaws.

These changes were excellent. In fact, one of the best changes I have ever seen.

In my main's corp, we now use ALL T2 ORE hulls. We did not throw away our Hulks.
Mack : bread and butter miner
Hulk : high yield fleet ops with Orca support
Skiff : L4 Recon 3 - the ONLY ship I know of that has decent speed and can tank the poison clouds then harvest all that juicy ore on the far side. This is the ONLY way to make L4 Recon 3 actually pay. If any corp member gets L4 Recon 3, we fleet up and run it with three Skiffs. And, the 50m3 drone bay allows for full flights of miner IIs and light armor reppers. One ship can carry a flight of combat drones for ratz.

We are still working out uses for the Skiff. One issue is that we can't cloak the Skiff easily with it's single high slot, so we have to be careful about scouting them in and out of low sec, or at least work out a travel protocol.

This set of ORE changes has nearly completely altered and improved our mining ops as a corp. We are taking full advantage of the changes. I suggest everyone do the same, because if you do, you'll see there is nothing to complain about.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#204 - 2012-08-14 14:44:59 UTC
I'd like to see dedicated ore hauling indy ships with huge amounts of ore hold but small real cargo. This could something interesting for Tech3 indies...

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#205 - 2012-08-14 14:57:27 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
OP: Your usage analysis only means that the Mackinaw's role (a solo miner) is VERY well received and that the solo role is the most popular role. Also, all the miners you got a screen snap of are solo miners. This does not mean that the changes were bad. It means that they worked and made a lot of miners so happy that they bought and/or rebuilt Mackinaws.

These changes were excellent. In fact, one of the best changes I have ever seen.

In my main's corp, we now use ALL T2 ORE hulls. We did not throw away our Hulks.
Mack : bread and butter miner
Hulk : high yield fleet ops with Orca support
Skiff : L4 Recon 3 - the ONLY ship I know of that has decent speed and can tank the poison clouds then harvest all that juicy ore on the far side. This is the ONLY way to make L4 Recon 3 actually pay. If any corp member gets L4 Recon 3, we fleet up and run it with three Skiffs. And, the 50m3 drone bay allows for full flights of miner IIs and light armor reppers. One ship can carry a flight of combat drones for ratz.

We are still working out uses for the Skiff. One issue is that we can't cloak the Skiff easily with it's single high slot, so we have to be careful about scouting them in and out of low sec, or at least work out a travel protocol.

This set of ORE changes has nearly completely altered and improved our mining ops as a corp. We are taking full advantage of the changes. I suggest everyone do the same, because if you do, you'll see there is nothing to complain about.


That's brilliant, very nice work there chaps. I just see Recon 4-3 as a chance to go make a sandwich while my domi slowboats over to the gate.

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#206 - 2012-08-14 15:27:22 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:

Skiff : L4 Recon 3 - the ONLY ship I know of that has decent speed and can tank the poison clouds then harvest all that juicy ore on the far side. This is the ONLY way to make L4 Recon 3 actually pay. If any corp member gets L4 Recon 3, we fleet up and run it with three Skiffs.


Any ship can get past the clouds. Timing.
Terraferma K10
Doomheim
#207 - 2012-08-14 17:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Terraferma K10
Why aren't there Hulks in the sea of Macks?
Would you park your lambo in a ghetto surrounded by hondas?

Just look at how most of you guys are reacting: "Must find hulk must find hulk must find hulk." Most of my ganker friends are feverishly jumping from system to system looking for hulks. Knowing this, would you be driving one of the most sought after targets or would you just bite the X% yield loss to have T-Rexs gloss over you in their "wtf another mack" rage?

Given my island bordering losec, I'll eat a little less yield to not have the insta-kill "hulk" label while PvPers are going crazy looking for blood during this time of change.

I recognize most mack-ers aren't using this mentality, but I posit that there are many hulk-ers (those with 2-3 accounts, orca/hauler support) abiding by this idea. Hell, I've never used a mack before and I bought 10-12 as soon as CCP wrote about their intended changes.
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#208 - 2012-08-14 21:36:57 UTC
Tigress Tionese wrote:
Ezra Tair wrote:
I am of the opinion that the changes are awesome. Are you really mad because now you don't need a separate character to haul if you use the midsize mining ships? Ship costs have been rising steadily since CCP removed other stream of ore into the game. Don't worry, they won't drop back down as low, but they won't stay as high either.

If your mad because guys can go afk mining ice for an hour? So what? How else do you play a mechanic that requires 5+ mins of staying 10km within a stationary object? The price drops with the influx of supply, and its not attractive, and they do something else. All the while they lower the isk cost of playing with capitals or running POSes.

Really, it sounds like you are mad because more people have a reason and the ability to mine without a real fear of being ganked. That lowers prices and thats bad for your, but good for others. deal bud.


I think not. Just a few posts ago I wrote that the barge HP buff was needed. So you're saying that miners needed a 35k m3 ore hold in order to feel safe enough to mine without being ganked? That makes no sense. The ore hold size has nothing to do with ganking, and everything to do with every man and his dog taking up mining as a passive semi afk income, made possible only because of the indy size ore hold.

Perhaps the devs need to add a way to do missions and pvp afk for up to an hour at a time too, since that seems to be the way we're heading.



Well as explained in the dev blog, they do not want to make industrial pointless, and they know they can't let it have a large cargohold and give it an tank that still tanks enough when the lows are full of cargo expanders. So they made a special use cargohold, so that people could fit tank without increasing their ability to move alot.

Instead of fighting a change that makes a dull ass action more bearable, you should employ your energies into making those dull ass actions less dull. It also costs 2-3 times a T2 transport, and 10x as much as a normal industrial. That it has some purpose and utility beyond "Sit and jettison ore" should not be surprising.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2012-08-14 21:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
Terraferma K10 wrote:
Why aren't there Hulks in the sea of Macks?
Would you park your lambo in a ghetto surrounded by hondas?

Just look at how most of you guys are reacting: "Must find hulk must find hulk must find hulk." Most of my ganker friends are feverishly jumping from system to system looking for hulks. Knowing this, would you be driving one of the most sought after targets or would you just bite the X% yield loss to have T-Rexs gloss over you in their "wtf another mack" rage?

Given my island bordering losec, I'll eat a little less yield to not have the insta-kill "hulk" label while PvPers are going crazy looking for blood during this time of change.

I recognize most mack-ers aren't using this mentality, but I posit that there are many hulk-ers (those with 2-3 accounts, orca/hauler support) abiding by this idea. Hell, I've never used a mack before and I bought 10-12 as soon as CCP wrote about their intended changes.


There's no reason for hulks to be sought after over macs, since the patch their market prices have switched places, mackinkaws are now the expensive ship that is going to cause the most loss to a miner when ganked.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#210 - 2012-08-15 00:22:59 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
Pre-patch: "Waaaaa my barge is made of paper and dies if you look at it the wrong way"
Post-patch: "Waaaa those mean Mackinaws hurt my hauler's feelings"

In other news, £50 notes don't fit in my wallet very well Cry

Think you might as well scrap the haulers in belts? Feel free. If you're really so bothered about min-maxing though you'll notice that if you just haul with your Mack then you lose out on mining time while shuttling between station and belt.


Exept macks are not to be warships. Yet they can stand up to 2 Tornado Alpha's. Face facts CCP ALWAYS over react to miners scremaing, they did it in Jihad an they did it this week again.

Miners/afk/botters because to be honest afk'ers are one step removed from filthy bots... Refuse point blank to EVER take any responsibility for their game play. They demanded an were given full immunity an freedom to bot in peace which is what they want. Anywhere.

Try telling a miner that he can be utterly an completely safe in HS drop can mining an he just flat out ignores you. Because he Doesn't want to use D scan
Doesn't want to mission belt mine
Doesn't want to pay attention to local
Doesn't want to ask others who the local gankers are
Doesn't want to Move away from hub systems where it's safe.

They just flat out dont want to play, they want the game to be played for them.

It is impossible to get killed if you pay an ounce of attention an as much as the miners will try to tell you it isn't fair that they should follow the rule set rest of us have to facts are they are lazy, arrogant an know that to get anything they want, they just demand it off CCP/blizzard.
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#211 - 2012-08-15 00:24:20 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Terraferma K10 wrote:
Why aren't there Hulks in the sea of Macks?
Would you park your lambo in a ghetto surrounded by hondas?

Just look at how most of you guys are reacting: "Must find hulk must find hulk must find hulk." Most of my ganker friends are feverishly jumping from system to system looking for hulks. Knowing this, would you be driving one of the most sought after targets or would you just bite the X% yield loss to have T-Rexs gloss over you in their "wtf another mack" rage?

Given my island bordering losec, I'll eat a little less yield to not have the insta-kill "hulk" label while PvPers are going crazy looking for blood during this time of change.

I recognize most mack-ers aren't using this mentality, but I posit that there are many hulk-ers (those with 2-3 accounts, orca/hauler support) abiding by this idea. Hell, I've never used a mack before and I bought 10-12 as soon as CCP wrote about their intended changes.


There's no reason for hulks to be sought after over macs, since the patch their market prices have switched places, mackinkaws are now the expensive ship that is going to cause the most loss to a miner when ganked.


except hulks can be killed (if your really lucky). I attacked a hulk other night with blasters, an he just ignored me, I did scratch damage top him.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2012-08-15 00:56:44 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Terraferma K10 wrote:
Why aren't there Hulks in the sea of Macks?
Would you park your lambo in a ghetto surrounded by hondas?

Just look at how most of you guys are reacting: "Must find hulk must find hulk must find hulk." Most of my ganker friends are feverishly jumping from system to system looking for hulks. Knowing this, would you be driving one of the most sought after targets or would you just bite the X% yield loss to have T-Rexs gloss over you in their "wtf another mack" rage?

Given my island bordering losec, I'll eat a little less yield to not have the insta-kill "hulk" label while PvPers are going crazy looking for blood during this time of change.

I recognize most mack-ers aren't using this mentality, but I posit that there are many hulk-ers (those with 2-3 accounts, orca/hauler support) abiding by this idea. Hell, I've never used a mack before and I bought 10-12 as soon as CCP wrote about their intended changes.


There's no reason for hulks to be sought after over macs, since the patch their market prices have switched places, mackinkaws are now the expensive ship that is going to cause the most loss to a miner when ganked.


except hulks can be killed (if your really lucky). I attacked a hulk other night with blasters, an he just ignored me, I did scratch damage top him.


Yes hulks can be killed but there's no longer a reason to target them specifically, hulks are now the cheaper ship because everyone is switching to asteroid solo pwnmobile macs.
Dave stark
#213 - 2012-08-15 00:58:49 UTC
oh look, every one is switching to mackinaws.

like i didn't predict this one coming a month ago...
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#214 - 2012-08-15 01:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
For real no idear, why people like OP have so much hate against miner :(.

You can PvP with one ACC. I don't talk about solo PvP! Just one account. (Two+ acc provide much more risk as it's likely to lose one if you don't pay attantion).
You can PvE with one ACC. Two are helpy but realy no need for Missions/Plexing/Ratting.
But you could NOT solo mine till this patch!

One of the most simple actions couldn't be done solo? That was just WRONG!
Either you used jet-cans but more often then not some wannabe Rambo tryed to steal your ore or flip the can. Many times when I docked to switch from Bark to Hauler I found empty cans :(. Or you hauled every 5 mins which was a pain (most missions requier more time if you don't blitz them).

Now I don't have to dock to get my bounty (ore) to the station :). Finaly I can mine with ONE account like I can PvE with just one and PvP with just one.

So the only one who cry like pink babys about this change are can flippers and ore thiefs.
PS: or guys who made big wins with selling Hulks to ganked miners as they now sit on all this not sold Hulks :p.

And to be honest ... WHO CARES!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#215 - 2012-08-15 01:13:41 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
For real no idear, why people like OP have so much hate against miner :(.

You can PvP with one ACC. I don't talk about solo PvP! Just one account. (Two+ acc provide much more risk as it's likely to lose one if you don't pay attantion).
You can PvE with one ACC. Two are helpy but realy no need for Missions/Plexing/Ratting.
But you could NOT solo mine till this patch!

One of the most simple actions couldn't be done solo? That was just WRONG!
Either you used jet-cans but more often then not some wannabe Rambo tryed to steal your ore or flip the can. Many times when I docked to switch from Bark to Hauler I found empty cans :(. Or you hauled every 5 mins which was a pain (most missions requier more time if you don't blitz them).

Now I don't have to dock to get my bounty (ore) to the station :). Finaly I can mine with ONE account like I can PvE with just one and PvP with just one.

So the only one who cry like pink babys about this change are can flippers and ore thiefs.

And to be honest ... WHO CARES!



LOL see what I mean, this guy is the prime example. Totally ignored the facts an the few simple rules you can follow to be safe.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#216 - 2012-08-15 01:37:22 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
Exept macks are not to be warships. Yet they can stand up to 2 Tornado Alpha's.
So could the Hulks of yore. Luckily, as with those Hulk, the miners have this interesting tendency of not fitting tanks to their ships, making the Macks as vulnerable to Tornados as those old Hulks.

…not that you need a Tornado to kill such a ship.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#217 - 2012-08-15 02:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Melodee619 wrote:
LOL see what I mean, this guy is the prime example. Totally ignored the facts an the few simple rules you can follow to be safe.

YouMad?

But I see what you mean :)

"BUHAHAH, I was a can flipper and now I can't do my wannabe Rambo stuff anymore, MAAAAAMMMMMIIII, they took my lollypop!!!!!1111"

PS: want to gank multi million ISK ships? BRING MULTI MILLION ISK SHIPS!
300m isk should die? invest 300m!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#218 - 2012-08-15 02:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Melodee619
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:
LOL see what I mean, this guy is the prime example. Totally ignored the facts an the few simple rules you can follow to be safe.

YouMad?

But I see what you mean :)

"BUHAHAH, I was a can flipper and now I can't do my wannabe Rambo stuff anymore, MAAAAAMMMMMIIII, they took my lollypop!!!!!1111"

PS: want to gank multi million ISK ships? BRING MULTI MILLION ISK SHIPS!
300m isk should die? invest 300m!



No idea what you were trying to say bnut i get the gist of it.
A. I dont cry I state facts
B. who made you miners so special that you dont rate following the rule set like rest of us.
C I am not a flipper. I dont need isk I kill for fun, period.
D.I dont get angry this is a computer game nothing more. it ceases to exist once I log off.
E. You botters/afkers are ones who did all the crying because you want to have CCP play eve for you, hence these idiotic changes. As I said before, before these changes following 5 simple rules means you NEVER die.. but that was too much for you lol.

You miners are giggle worthy I'll give you that, you demand to be protected by CCP yet for years you have been told how to remove any risk to your gaming/botting an you just ignore it.you lot are actually worse than mission runners who are now demanding CCP remove any risk to their gaming too.

Amusing.

edit as for spending isk. You choose to mine, you take on the cost, your fault when you die, none els.
I personally spend up to 200 million per kill
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#219 - 2012-08-15 02:31:42 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
PS: want to gank multi million ISK ships? BRING MULTI MILLION ISK SHIPS!
300m isk should die? invest 300m!
Fortunately, the game doesn't operate on that kind of class/level-game logic.

Cost is not a balancing factor.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#220 - 2012-08-15 02:38:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Cost is not a balancing factor.


hmmmm....