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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts

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Endeavour Starfleet
#301 - 2011-10-12 23:56:24 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I love this thread so much. I can't wait 'til my newest stealth bomber alt is done cooking.


One of the reasons we post as alts. If you knew who my main was I would more than expect to "Gain" you or another AFK cloaker in our system as retribution. That is why posting as an alt or main has nothing to do with it.

A good idea to deal with this issue is a good idea. Big smile


Lol, carebear cowards using forum alts. How... cowardly of you.



That is completely off topic. I will refer you to the forum TOS and rules. Please follow them. This topic is about discussing solutions to the issue of being able to be cloaked in a system while away from the computer or otherwise not paying attention to the client risk free.


You are talking with people who more often than not run out of valid arguments, Then they turn to personal insults.


I refer them to the forum TOS and rules in case they are not aware. If they want to turn to things that violate the forum TOS. They can face the consequences.

Yet we need to try to stay on topic as much as we can. If we can focus on providing real solutions to the issue of being able to cloak risk free while not paying attention to the client. We can avoid massive nerf bat swings that can seriously affect cloaking as a whole.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#302 - 2011-10-13 00:02:45 UTC
so then not letting them in your system isn't an option?

this was the tool I was referring to

afk cloakers do not simply spawn into your system, they need to travel just like everyone else.
a quick look at the stats on evekill will tell you covops ships are not indestructible, people pop em all the time

you have the tools, thats why your demand for a fix to your personal problems is not a fix or a worthy topic of discussion.

covops have to transit around the universe just like everyone else, they have to log in and log out, they dock and undock
they enter and exit your precious system with gates

the cloaks benefit is to grant you immunity from detection, thats the whole point, without that feature its useless, and it comes at a hefty cost even on a covops ship.

if you can't control access to your system, then its not really your system is it?
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#303 - 2011-10-13 00:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Morganta wrote:
so then not letting them in your system isn't an option?

this was the tool I was referring to

afk cloakers do not simply spawn into your system, they need to travel just like everyone else.
a quick look at the stats on evekill will tell you covops ships are not indestructible, people pop em all the time

you have the tools, thats why your demand for a fix to your personal problems is not a fix or a worthy topic of discussion.

covops have to transit around the universe just like everyone else, they have to log in and log out, they dock and undock
they enter and exit your precious system with gates

the cloaks benefit is to grant you immunity from detection, thats the whole point, without that feature its useless, and it comes at a hefty cost even on a covops ship.

if you can't control access to your system, then its not really your system is it?





And i try to catch them when i know they are coming. More often then not they escape but i have no problem with that, since i'm also a covops pilot and i also camp systems from time to time. So like i said i have no problem in scaring people simply by being there (and i also have no idea why they let themselves be scared, since i know my own capabilities and limitations.. i'm not the Chuck Norris they think i am)

I have a problem with those of us.... with those of you who think a covert ops cloaking device should make you completely invulnerable while flying in space. I don't feel very brave or very "elite" when i know that my enemy has a zero percent chance of finding me no matter how skilled they are themselves. To put it bluntly, its boring. Now if they can't find my puny rifter, its a whole different matter. I don't have a cloak, there are means to find me and yet they fail at doing so. I would have absolutely no difficulties in adapting to as much as half the so called "sollutions" proposed in this thread, and would be quite capable of terrorizing and scaring people to kingdom come regardless. Meanwhile you cry.

And it amuses me even more when threads like these appear and you scorn everyone who even suggest a 0,001% chance of change to the status quo and accuse THEM of being cowards. You want pose as ~elite PvP'er~ and stroke your epeen while hiding and calling cowards those who want to find you no matter where, when and how you hide. Pathetic.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Vid Eeomeet
Smoke 'n' Mirrors
#304 - 2011-10-13 00:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vid Eeomeet
Cloaked ships are only the threat of a threat apart from being able to relay system Intel.

Every ship in Eve has a d-scan. Use it. I just finished running a cosmic anon in 0.0 with one cloaked ship in systematic and another docked. D-scan. Cloaked ships don't stop activity, fear does.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#305 - 2011-10-13 00:27:18 UTC
Morganta wrote:
so then not letting them in your system isn't an option?

this was the tool I was referring to

afk cloakers do not simply spawn into your system, they need to travel just like everyone else.
a quick look at the stats on evekill will tell you covops ships are not indestructible, people pop em all the time

you have the tools, thats why your demand for a fix to your personal problems is not a fix or a worthy topic of discussion.

covops have to transit around the universe just like everyone else, they have to log in and log out, they dock and undock
they enter and exit your precious system with gates

the cloaks benefit is to grant you immunity from detection, thats the whole point, without that feature its useless, and it comes at a hefty cost even on a covops ship.

if you can't control access to your system, then its not really your system is it?


You have just proven that you have absolutely no idea what we're talking about.

Seriously mate, when was the last time you were able to lock and pop a fast recon coming into a system? Unless you're sitting with a triple seboed araz ready and waiting you ain't even gonna lock him let alone kill him.

OP is right. This topic is being hijacked by people with a very clear case for it to remain 'as is" because they know damn well how effective it is.

Summary for the mindless morons to keep this on topic......

We KNOW he's cloaked. We KNOW he's in system . We KNOW he's potentially dangerous. (It's not "just one red"... That's just being a ****...)

We DO NOT KNOW if he is AFK.

He is effective whether he is at his keyboard or in bed. The term AFK is being used as though we KNOW he is AFK and we KNOW he is not active.

If we KNEW he was AFK, it WOULD NOT be an issue.

So much of this is just mindless and moronic word games. It's trolling for the sake of it.

The argument is that he SHOULDN'T be allowed to be effective when he is NOT there.

It's a NO RISK, NO CONSEQUENCE activity that has RISK and CONSEQUENCES. No-one is asking for "safe" space and free handouts. That's just moronic trolling.

/me wonders where the naysayers would land if he said we should introduce no-consequence, no-risk cloaky mining and ratting? Oh wait. You have.... Who asked for non-scannable Tengus to be nerfed?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#306 - 2011-10-13 00:27:28 UTC
Cloaks!!!


Nothing causes more bots to dock up and more fat Russian girlfriends to get pushed off of laps faster than popping into a 0.0 system from a WH and hitting that cloak before they launch that super and start spamming insults in bad english.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
The Apostle
Doomheim
#307 - 2011-10-13 00:37:27 UTC
Vid Eeomeet wrote:
Cloaked ships are only the threat of a threat apart from being able to relay system Intel.

Every ship in Eve has a d-scan. Use it. I just finished running a cosmic anon in 0.0 with one cloaked ship in systematic and another docked. D-scan. Cloaked ships don't stop activity, fear does.

Firstly, where do you rat?

Seriously, you do know that d-scan does not show cloakies right? You do know he doesn't need a probe to find you right? You do know that a cyno-jammed system is also ineffective against hotdrops right?

Just askin'.....

tbh, continuing to rat with neut loose in system is the very reason hotdrops are effective. You WILL be a cheap kill, and soon.

But yes, fear is an effect. The inability to do anything about it is the problem and the topic at hand.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#308 - 2011-10-13 00:39:20 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

tbh, continuing to rat with neut loose in system is the very reason hotdrops are effective. You WILL be a cheap kill, and soon.

So don't do it then!

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#309 - 2011-10-13 00:41:41 UTC
The Apostle left nullsec because he was unwilling to jump next door to the system with the afk cloaker to do his ratting. Logic isn't going to be effective.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#310 - 2011-10-13 00:41:44 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

tbh, continuing to rat with neut loose in system is the very reason hotdrops are effective. You WILL be a cheap kill, and soon.

So don't do it then!

[cough] I don't.

Whether you intend to hotdrop or not. But if you're asleep in system, I can't even ask Twisted

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#311 - 2011-10-13 00:42:55 UTC
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
The Apostle left nullsec because he was unwilling to jump next door to the system with the afk cloaker to do his ratting. Logic isn't going to be effective.

Did this actually happen or are you just saying that? Because if that literally happened then it's hilarious.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
The Apostle
Doomheim
#312 - 2011-10-13 00:46:49 UTC
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
The Apostle left nullsec because he was unwilling to jump next door to the system with the afk cloaker to do his ratting. Logic isn't going to be effective.

lol, hell yah.

And Skunk Gracklaw came into system and left 5 sleeping alts in neighbouring systems because he knew I was ratting.

Yep. Just me. ONLY person EVER to affected by AFK cloakies in the entire universe......

And yep, you are 100% correct. Logic is NOT going to be effective. You're the case in point.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#313 - 2011-10-13 00:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
There's no need to leave system. Grab a few friends and go rat with more then one.

There is nothing i love the most then seeing one cloaker become several because he needs help to lock up all the available sanctums in the system. Then we do havens.

The Apostle wrote:
And yep, you are 100% correct. Logic is NOT going to be effective. You're the case in point.


I call it "selective filter"

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#314 - 2011-10-13 00:48:34 UTC
even when he's there, hes still "not there"

AFK or ATK the threat is a perceived one.

so how do you recon this works with eyes?
their role is to cloak for intel, not afk harassment.

do you think these people should be rendered ineffective because the blob on the gate he's scouting can probe/scan/pulse him down with 10 different members in a matter of seconds?

again, its your personal dislike of a system affecting one aspect of your gameplay and you call for a global nerf that addresses your agenda with no regard for all the other ways the class is employed throughout the game.

This is my problem, Sometimes you just have to learn to deal with it and quit asking for things that mess it up for everyone else, I could care less about the specific nerf, it don't matter.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#315 - 2011-10-13 00:49:17 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
The Apostle left nullsec because he was unwilling to jump next door to the system with the afk cloaker to do his ratting. Logic isn't going to be effective.

Did this actually happen or are you just saying that? Because if that literally happened then it's hilarious.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=174513#post174513
Read it quick before he edits it.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#316 - 2011-10-13 00:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:
The Apostle left nullsec because he was unwilling to jump next door to the system with the afk cloaker to do his ratting. Logic isn't going to be effective.

Did this actually happen or are you just saying that? Because if that literally happened then it's hilarious.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=174513#post174513
Read it quick before he edits it.


I'll save ya the trouble....

Quote:
Sanctum nerf happened, AFK cloakies moved in and my income disappeared. Got to the point where I couldn't afford to lose ships anymore so stopped roaming. Couldn't rat, couldn't mine, couldn't roam. So I left.


And at post #63 I ALSO said....

Quote:
But yes. That, and the combination of JB nerf and Sanctum nerf.... And I'll bet my 10 ice roids to your 5 Brutix's that many did the same thing.

Your dastardly plot has been foiled.

Keep digging troll...... Standard response when you've lost the plot. Attack the poster not the post... I'm good with it...

EDIT: In fact you're validating the very reason why people think something needs to be done..... CCP would have the numbers.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#317 - 2011-10-13 00:57:56 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Cloaks!!!


Nothing causes more bots to dock up and more fat Russian girlfriends to get pushed off of laps faster than popping into a 0.0 system from a WH and hitting that cloak before they launch that super and start spamming insults in bad english.



this may be the funniest thing I've read all day

+1
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#318 - 2011-10-13 00:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Morganta wrote:
even when he's there, hes still "not there"

AFK or ATK the threat is a perceived one.

so how do you recon this works with eyes?
their role is to cloak for intel, not afk harassment.

do you think these people should be rendered ineffective because the blob on the gate he's scouting can probe/scan/pulse him down with 10 different members in a matter of seconds?


Nope. By being cloaked it means that you should be able to react much more effectivelly to whatever tactic your enemy wishes to employ. Maybe as simple as just moving around just by clicking at random directions in space.

But the key here is that YOU need to REACT to whatever tactics your enemy wishes to employ. So your ship needs you at the helm making tactical decisions if you wish to remain effective. The cloak should only make it easier.


Take the 10km T2 probe idea. You can easelly mitigate that by simply leaving your ship accelerated.


The enemy will arrive 10km from you, and before he exits warp, your cloaky will already be 13km from him moving away in whatever crazy direction you selected and will keep on moving away, making the search-radius bigger and bigger.


HOWEVER, you wouldn't be able to simply accelerate your ship and go AFK because a semi-intelligent prober will know how to detect the vector of a moving ship that only goes in one direction.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#319 - 2011-10-13 01:00:52 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
[quote=Morganta]even when he's there, hes still "not there"

AFK or ATK the threat is a perceived one.

so how do you recon this works with eyes?
their role is to cloak for intel, not afk harassment.

do you think these people should be rendered ineffective because the blob on the gate he's scouting can probe/scan/pulse him down with 10 different members in a matter of seconds?/[quote]

Nope. By being cloaked it means that you should be able to react much more effectivelly to whatever tactic your enemy wishes to employ. Maybe as simple as just moving around just by clicking at random directions in space.

But the key here is that YOU need to REACT to whatever tactics your enemy wishes to employ. So your ship needs you at the helm making tactical decisions if you wish to remain effective. The cloak should only make it easier.


Take the 10km probe. You can easelly mitigate that by simply leaving your ship accelerated.


The enemy will arrive 10km from you, and before he exits warp, your cloaky will already be 13km from him moving away in whatever crazy direction you selected and will keep on moving away, making the search-radius bigger and bigger.


HOWEVER, you wouldn't be able to simply accelerate your ship and go AFK because a semi-intelligent prober will know how to detect the vector of a moving ship that only goes in one direction.


unless I'm orbiting a moon at 349km
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#320 - 2011-10-13 01:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Morganta wrote:
unless I'm orbiting a moon at 349km


Nope, can still find you regardless if you are moving in a straight line or orbiting something. If you're AFK then your vector remains unchanged. I probe you down 4 or 5 times at different, regular intervals and drop a can at each spot. Depending on the line or the curve i can predict where you will be.


Unless you change your vector.


Now THIS is much more entertaning for me, both for the hunter and the hunted.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.