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No Offgrid Gang Boosters Active inside POS

Author
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-07-27 15:39:36 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Well these are all good points but really, they're all moot.

Off grid boosting is going to disappear eventually. You will have to be ON GRID to supply gang bonuses.

Oh deary me! What about my offgrid cloaky T3 fleet booster? That's not fair!

Grow some balls and fit it for use on grid.

I will get the link to the video if you really want the evidence

have you ever played the game? know what you are talking about..boosting modules don't work when cloaked.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#22 - 2012-07-27 15:46:00 UTC
+1, no gang links inside force fields.

If you can't defend a rorq that is sitting just outside a POS shield long enough for it to go mobile and scoot back into the shields, you probably shouldn't be using a rorq.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-07-27 16:05:47 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Well these are all good points but really, they're all moot.

Off grid boosting is going to disappear eventually. You will have to be ON GRID to supply gang bonuses.

Oh deary me! What about my offgrid cloaky T3 fleet booster? That's not fair!

Grow some balls and fit it for use on grid.

I will get the link to the video if you really want the evidence

have you ever played the game? know what you are talking about..boosting modules don't work when cloaked.



you're an idiot
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#24 - 2012-07-27 16:15:41 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
far beyond a mining ops ability to defend it.


I see the problem. You expect to be able to devote all of your resources to mining, get the benefits of a rorqual, AND still be safe.

So, let's think about the scenario: You've got enough hulks mining to make having a rorq and an orca worthwhile. The rorq is cycling just outside a POS shield with the orca hauling for it. Suddenly, local spike. Your miners all hit the POS shield and reship to PVP ships...I'm thinking a ball of RR domis, something that can give that rorq a tank if it's attacked. One or two might be POS gunners instead.

With a small fleet of PVP ships inside a well-armed POS, do you really expect them to pick a fight with that Rorq? Do you think they would have any hope of destroying it before it got back inside the shield?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#25 - 2012-07-27 16:16:40 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
+1, no gang links inside force fields.

If you can't defend a rorq that is sitting just outside a POS shield long enough for it to go mobile and scoot back into the shields, you probably shouldn't be using a rorq.

The rorq was balanced with use inside forcefields as a given.

Obviously it will require big changes if they remove that, as it otherwise won't have this foundation for use any longer.

The suggestion the Rorqual can be used in a practical manner so far outside of it's intended design is moot; noone in their right mind would attempt it.

It would seriously make ratting in carriers look clever by comparison.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#26 - 2012-07-27 16:22:21 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
The rorq was balanced with use inside forcefields as a given.


And it can still be used inside a POS. Just not with gang links running.

Nikk Narrel wrote:
Obviously it will require big changes if they remove that, as it otherwise won't have this foundation for use any longer.


Sure it would. You could run compression inside the POS shield, or both outside. You just have to choose whether you value the gang links enough to risk the ship.

Nikk Narrel wrote:
The suggestion the Rorqual can be used in a practical manner so far outside of it's intended design is moot; noone in their right mind would attempt it.


You keep saying it was designed for used inside a POS, yet the capital tractor beam can't be used without targeting, which is impossible inside a force field.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#27 - 2012-07-27 16:29:22 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
far beyond a mining ops ability to defend it.


I see the problem. You expect to be able to devote all of your resources to mining, get the benefits of a rorqual, AND still be safe.

So, let's think about the scenario: You've got enough hulks mining to make having a rorq and an orca worthwhile. The rorq is cycling just outside a POS shield with the orca hauling for it. Suddenly, local spike. Your miners all hit the POS shield and reship to PVP ships...I'm thinking a ball of RR domis, something that can give that rorq a tank if it's attacked. One or two might be POS gunners instead.

With a small fleet of PVP ships inside a well-armed POS, do you really expect them to pick a fight with that Rorq? Do you think they would have any hope of destroying it before it got back inside the shield?

I think this would be something different, and here is why:
That attacker strategy is improbable for the target. You don't go for this ship like that unless you know you can pop it before reinforcements show.

The moment a scout determined a capital ship like the rorqual was a potential target, a hot drop would be arranged just for it.
Even if scouts are in use defensively 1 system out in every direction, then they will simply use the fastest cyno ship capable of reaching the target.

Under ideal conditions reshipping in a mining op would take at least a minute. Realistically it would take two before sufficient forces were in a posture and prepared.

The Rorqual's cost of use is implied to include having a POS in the system you are mining in.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#28 - 2012-07-27 16:34:55 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
You keep saying it was designed for used inside a POS, yet the capital tractor beam can't be used without targeting, which is impossible inside a force field.

Gotta say, I spent a LOT of hours working in the same system as a rorqual on ops.

I have yet to see it use this tractor beam once.

It would need to go to the belts for that. Don't see that either. The miners I know get nervous if you even have orcas doing hauling, for that matter.

Now, deep inside someone's fortified and secure multi-system SOV empire, things might be different. But then, they don't usually see hostile ships.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#29 - 2012-07-27 16:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Nikk Narrel wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
You keep saying it was designed for used inside a POS, yet the capital tractor beam can't be used without targeting, which is impossible inside a force field.

Gotta say, I spent a LOT of hours working in the same system as a rorqual on ops.

I have yet to see it use this tractor beam once.

It would need to go to the belts for that. Don't see that either. The miners I know get nervous if you even have orcas doing hauling, for that matter.

Now, deep inside someone's fortified and secure multi-system SOV empire, things might be different. But then, they don't usually see hostile ships.

What you see in game and what CCP intended often aren't the same thing. They clearly envisioned the Rorqual sitting deployed in a belt, tractoring cans and crunching ore directly from the hulks. Otherwise, the cap tractor beam makes no sense.

The upcoming exhumer changes and the associated dev comments clearly indicate that the hulk was ALWAYS meant for operations with orca/rorq support in spaces where security could be gained by force. They were SUPPOSED to be fragile, in exchange for their high yield. What did lots of players do with the Hulk? put it in a highsec belt with no defensive mods and cry when it got ganked. That was well outside the indicated intent, and CCP is now rebalancing the ships so that highsec miners looking to avoid ganks will have to give up yield in favor of security.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-07-27 16:58:44 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

What you see in game and what CCP intended often aren't the same thing.


qft.


On the theme of this thread though, I am in support of combat booster modules not working in shields and mining booster modules working in shields.

solves the issues of using a orca or rorq for combat boosts if you do something to the ship boosts.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-07-27 17:45:42 UTC
well, if it has to move outside the shields, they will need to do something about the cap stability. it currently is not cap stable running its one cap shield booster for an entire industrial cycle, since they did not come out with a t2 industrial core, or halve the cycle time like they did for the siege and triage modules, its still stuck in place for nearly a full 11 min. and 11 min is plenty long enough for a titan DD drop to instapop a rorqual. and at the current 5.5-6.5 bil isk value, this is well in the risk vs killboard stats of risking a titan on field.

Zaine Maltis
Innsmouth Enterprises
#32 - 2012-07-27 18:04:52 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:

congratulations non miner... for coming up with a dumb idea. you could put a fort knox tank on the ship it won't matter.. because in siege mode it's sits with a big fat bullseye on it and is still destroyable far beyond a mining ops ability to defend it (you aren't thinking this is a high sec ship are you?). in the long run you might as well remove the rorq and give us an ore compression pos module.


Actually, it sounds more like you aren't willing to take risks. Well, then don't fly those expensive ships. Like I said, use this deep in safe space. Yes there is risk.

Anyway, the point was about POS'd boosters, rather than Roquals.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#33 - 2012-07-27 19:12:44 UTC
Zaine Maltis wrote:
Anyway, the point was about POS'd boosters, rather than Roquals.

Quick heads up, Rorqual is a boosting ship.

99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules


Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses:
10% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman warfare links per level when in deployed mode
(Has to be in siege to get the bonus)

If they wanna make indy shps follow separate rules, fine by me.
Zaine Maltis
Innsmouth Enterprises
#34 - 2012-07-27 23:17:31 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Zaine Maltis wrote:
Anyway, the point was about POS'd boosters, rather than Roquals.

Quick heads up, Rorqual is a boosting ship.


Really? I had no idea Roll
Mag's
Azn Empire
#35 - 2012-07-28 01:18:48 UTC
Zaine Maltis wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Zaine Maltis wrote:
Anyway, the point was about POS'd boosters, rather than Roquals.

Quick heads up, Rorqual is a boosting ship.


Really? I had no idea Roll
Quick heads up. The sentence quoted by Nikk, implied just that.

May I suggest better sentence structure in future, that way we'd all understand you better. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

El Geo
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#36 - 2012-08-14 15:40:35 UTC
as much as i hate gang link boosters removing the ability for them to boost offgrid will only help out the larger alliances and encourage blobbing, and that is bad enough as it is.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#37 - 2012-08-14 15:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Nikk Narrel wrote:


It would need to go to the belts for that. Don't see that either.


I know for a fact your alliance use to warp your rorqual to belts. Cool



But +1 for ships that are in poses not being able to run modules.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#38 - 2012-08-14 15:47:38 UTC
no bonuses of whatever kind (including rorq) from off grid, so means no boost from POS as well. Thats right. CCP is doing a right move finally. If you want bonuses, accept the risks.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#39 - 2012-08-14 15:52:24 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
no bonuses of whatever kind (including rorq) from off grid, so means no boost from POS as well. Thats right. CCP is doing a right move finally. If you want bonuses, accept the risks.


So basically: "I want only gatecamps and blobs to have links"

Off grid (but not inside pos) boosting is not risk free. Ive killed linkboats before, and lost linkboats before.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#40 - 2012-08-14 15:55:09 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
no bonuses of whatever kind (including rorq) from off grid, so means no boost from POS as well. Thats right. CCP is doing a right move finally. If you want bonuses, accept the risks.


So basically: "I want only gatecamps and blobs to have links"

Off grid (but not inside pos) boosting is not risk free. Ive killed linkboats before, and lost linkboats before.


no im sick of finding and trying to probe down off grid booster alts, erryone and his grandma seem to have nowadays.
If you want bonus, put them on grid.. seems viable for me.
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