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Lasers. Names. Changes. Please read before reaching for your weapons.

First post
Author
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-08-14 14:51:55 UTC
I still think "limited" is kind of a silly name if the idea is to imply that it's better. When I was picking blasters for a frigate once, I chose Limited blasters, and because of the name coupled with the decreased PG/CPU requirements, I assumed they were weaker.

...Actually, all the new names make them sound unstable/untested/less-good. I vote we use Upgraded, Overcharged (or Extended in the case of projectiles), Enhanced, and Bespoke.

Other than that all good :)

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-08-14 14:54:00 UTC
oh, and on a side note (hold your breath, NDA breach incoming):

dust uses advanced and prototype as names for for higher level weapons, would be awesome if there was at least some consistency between the two games in that regard
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-08-14 14:54:47 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Syndic Thrass wrote:
I don't think anyone has any qualms about fixing everything to fit one naming scheme. When prop mods and shield hardeners changed, it was a slight annoyance for like 30 minutes then it was just as good as always. One thing to keep in mind is making stuff easy to search for on the market though. Like when I'm fitting up a Drake (for example) and I want 3 kinds of hardeners, its nice to be able to type "field ii" and they all pop up. making it (prefix) Electron Blaster II or whatever would be p cool just because that would make navigating the market in general easier.


In this case the nice thing is if you search for "pulse i" or "pulse ii" you will get all pulse lasers. They won't be filtered by size in this case, but yes.

Kinda makes me want to put "i" on the end of all the faction/officer/storyline weapons...



Yeah, I seem to remember (perhaps in my imagination) that some of the meta small blasters had "I" after them then randomly others didn't. This affects all of absolutely nothing in the game but its just a random inconsistency. And yeah, consistent names would be p cool but I'm just trying to say keep in mind that most of us are lazy faggots who don't want to type "gatling modal pulse laser" or "experimental 10mn microwarpdrive" I love that whenever I need a prop mod now I just type "1mn m" or "1mn a" and then I have all the frig sized ABs/MWDs pop up. If you're going about fixing names, please make sure its as easy as possible for me to be as worthless and lazy as possible. While we're on the subject, this may not be your team, but for the love of God separate the Browse and Search bars again.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8

Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-08-14 14:58:19 UTC
Jace Errata wrote:
I still think "limited" is kind of a silly name if the idea is to imply that it's better. When I was picking blasters for a frigate once, I chose Limited blasters, and because of the name coupled with the decreased PG/CPU requirements, I assumed they were weaker.

...Actually, all the new names make them sound unstable/untested/less-good. I vote we use Upgraded, Overcharged (or Extended in the case of projectiles), Enhanced, and Bespoke.

Other than that all good :)


Meta 2-4 weapons are "less good" than T2.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8

Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#25 - 2012-08-14 14:59:13 UTC
Quote:
Keep it likes this?


TYPO: "likes"? Blink

Aside from that, I'm all for weapons getting their names sorted. It'll also be nice to know a "modal whatever" is the same meta level small laser as it would be medium or large, instead of how it is now.

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#26 - 2012-08-14 15:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
I REALLY dislike the UPgraded, Limited, blah, blah. I REALLY dislike it a LOT.

The reason is because then EVERYTHING sounds the same for meta level, and it really strips the soul out of it all. As well the naming scheme is REALLY unhelpful in every way to designate anything in terms of superiority. Yes, I understand that sometimes it can get sometimes overly complicated, but for each weapon type let them stand out and be a bit unique. I do agree that some of the Modal's confuse across the various types of weapons and those things should be addressed.

SO, please, please, please do not use the Upgraded, Limited, Prototype scheme for the weapon hardpoints. I'm really tired of seeing this scheme used.

Rename all the "Medium Pulse Lasers" to "Small Pulse Lasers" so people know they're not MEDIUM sized weapons (Which was super dumb). And make those necessary adjustments. Tweak some of the weapon meta types such as 'Scout' railguns and 'Scout' autocannons being the same meta type, or so on.

If you want to add a meta descriptor to stuff, reconsider using the 'I' at the end of all the modules and put a meta number, i.e.
Dual Afocal Pulse Laser M1
Dual Modal Pulse Laser M2
Dual Anode Pulse Paricle Stream M3
etc

Thanks for listening.

Where I am.

Lorl Rofeller
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-14 15:01:44 UTC
Personally, I would get rid of the "I"s on the end of the meta variants too.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-08-14 15:01:57 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
oh, and on a side note (hold your breath, NDA breach incoming):

dust uses advanced and prototype as names for for higher level weapons, would be awesome if there was at least some consistency between the two games in that regard


You are literally ********, both for breaking your NDA then calling yourself on it preemptively, and because there are Advanced 'Limos" Heavy Missile Bays and Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Bays, Eve uses those prefixes too. Way to breach your NDA for nothing m8! o7o7

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#29 - 2012-08-14 15:02:10 UTC
You want to standardize everything in this game. Sad

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Harrigan VonStudly
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#30 - 2012-08-14 15:03:34 UTC
The proposed names in the list looks pretty common sensical to me. THe only thing that doesn't seem to fit, at least for me, is the proposed names for the 'focused' type. Currently they are a medium small weapon. A more powerful version of smalls, if you will. Right? But the proposed name does not indicate that. Albeit medium as it is currently can be confusing especially since there is a medium size for cruisers/bc's.

As for a suggest clarifying change to what is proposed I have no answer yet.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-08-14 15:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
CCP FoxFour

In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out.

For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injector

Hybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me).

So this my proposal:

Frigate lasers
Light 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser)
Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser)
Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)

Cruiser lasers
Medium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt)
Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)

Battleship lasers
Large 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt)
Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)

Capital lasers
X-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser)

After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype)

Distinctive features of each turret, such as certain laser turrets having 2 "barrels", can be acknowledged in the description of the module.


Edit 1: and before somebody says the gatling pulse only uses 1 GJ per shot, how can it put out 2 GW? Well, 1 GJ over 0.5 seconds (a brief pulse) would be exactly 2 GW.

Edit 2: for best market-search results, this naming scheme is even better: "2 Gigawatt Light Pulse Laser".

Edit 3: Aamrr suggested to abbreviate the wattage. 50 Gigawatt Pulse Laser becomes 50GW Pulse Laser. I like shorter module names.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-08-14 15:04:55 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:


I REALLY dislike the UPgraded, Limited, blah, blah. I REALLY dislike it a LOT.

The reason is because then EVERYTHING sounds the same for meta level, and it really strips the soul out of it all. As well the naming scheme is REALLY unhelpful in every way to designate anything in terms of superiority. Yes, I understand that sometimes it can get sometimes overly complicated, but for each weapon type let them stand out and be a bit unique. I do agree that some of the Modal's confuse across the various types of weapons and those things should be addressed.

SO, please, please, please do not use the Upgraded, Limited, Prototype scheme for the weapon hardpoints. I'm really tired of seeing this scheme used.

Rename all the "Medium Pulse Lasers" to "Small Pulse Lasers" so people know they're not MEDIUM sized weapons (Which was super dumb). And make those necessary adjustments. Tweak some of the weapon meta types such as 'Scout' railguns and 'Scout' autocannons being the same meta type, or so on.

If you want to add a meta descriptor to stuff, reconsider using the 'I' at the end of all the modules and put a meta number, i.e.
Dual Afocal Pulse Laser M1
Dual Modal Pulse Laser M2
Dual Anode Pulse Paricle Stream M3
etc

Thanks for listening.


So you think that the current names "strip the soul out of it all" and you advocate the alternate naming convention of naming them all the same and slapping a number on the end?

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8

Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2012-08-14 15:07:10 UTC
Yep, using watts or something like it makes a lot of sense.
Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-08-14 15:08:14 UTC
We could ***** about the proposed names chosen to represent the Meta levels but no one would ever agree on a name so quit focusing on the names so much, everyone who has been around anytime they changed names before knows that when you type "EM Ward Field II" in, it isn't because you figured you would get shot with EM and were just hoping there was a field for it because they used to be Photon Fields. Basically just accept whatever they'll be called and type it in twice and after a day max you'll be used to the new name.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8

Mark Raynor
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-08-14 15:09:03 UTC
(Holy crap I'm posting on the forums for the first time in ever.)

I'm fully in favor of renaming things to make more sense. Giving things names that are easier to remember what is what is something that, while the app and tool creators would probably be vaguely annoyed about, in the long run I think the benefits outweigh any potential inconvenience.

That having been said, there was a mention upthread about DUST weapons having different naming conventions. Given that I don't have a PS3 and won't for an appreciable while, this isn't so much something that's on my radar, but I think there's definitely something to the idea of having uniform names between EVE and DUST, if for no other reason than to make things just a touch more logical (I know, shocking idea) on people that play both, get hooked on EVE from DUST, and on combatant commanders that are trying to coordinate both ground and space combat.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#36 - 2012-08-14 15:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
Syndic Thrass wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:


I REALLY dislike the UPgraded, Limited, blah, blah. I REALLY dislike it a LOT.

The reason is because then EVERYTHING sounds the same for meta level, and it really strips the soul out of it all. As well the naming scheme is REALLY unhelpful in every way to designate anything in terms of superiority. Yes, I understand that sometimes it can get sometimes overly complicated, but for each weapon type let them stand out and be a bit unique. I do agree that some of the Modal's confuse across the various types of weapons and those things should be addressed.

SO, please, please, please do not use the Upgraded, Limited, Prototype scheme for the weapon hardpoints. I'm really tired of seeing this scheme used.

Rename all the "Medium Pulse Lasers" to "Small Pulse Lasers" so people know they're not MEDIUM sized weapons (Which was super dumb). And make those necessary adjustments. Tweak some of the weapon meta types such as 'Scout' railguns and 'Scout' autocannons being the same meta type, or so on.

If you want to add a meta descriptor to stuff, reconsider using the 'I' at the end of all the modules and put a meta number, i.e.
Dual Afocal Pulse Laser M1
Dual Modal Pulse Laser M2
Dual Anode Pulse Paricle Stream M3
etc

Thanks for listening.


So you think that the current names "strip the soul out of it all" and you advocate the alternate naming convention of naming them all the same and slapping a number on the end?



Eh?

The new meta descriptors are bad.

Upgraded, Limited, Prototype are totally useless in relationship to each other to help it make more sense. I agree some of the obviously complicated things should be undone, but using the meta naming scheme they have is really awful as a step forward. As well, they really start to take some of the charm of the various modules away from them. Yes, it takes some time to learn it, but the real issue isn't the name of the descriptor, it's the fact that you call them all "T1" via the "I" designator, when really they're meta equipment. Instead of renaming everything with this bad scheme, just stick M1 or something like that and that resolves the superiority descriptor issue.

The meta # description is mostly just a compromise to the fact that the 'I' is a deception. They aren't really "T1", They're meta gear. And calling them T1 is a misnomer.

Where I am.

Syndic Thrass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-08-14 15:12:15 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Yep, using watts or something like it makes a lot of sense.


Capacitors are charged in like Giga Joules or some such **** so naming them by Watts would A. Lead to boring as all hell names and B. Quite on the contrary, it would make no sense whatsoever seeing as Watts measure power and joules measure energy, I think ou lost a t somewhere in that naming convention of yours.

Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-08-14 15:12:48 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP FoxFour

In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out.

For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injector

Hybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me).

So this my proposal:

Frigate lasers
Light 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser)
Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser)
Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)

Cruiser lasers
Medium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt)
Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)

Battleship lasers
Large 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt)
Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)

Capital lasers
X-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser)

After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype)



welcome to the world of 2 edged swords

it is not a bad idea, but it could lure people (especially new players) into only using the ones with the biggest number. giving away a hint towards usage in the name is a pretty good idea, therefore gatling (strobe !) and focused are actually usefull, not 100% sure about dual. might have to rethink about that.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 - 2012-08-14 15:13:06 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP FoxFour

In real life, the strength of a laser is often expressed in watts. Watts is a measure of the amount of energy per second they can put out.

For example this article speaks about a megawatt laser: http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-01/navys-free-electron-laser-weapon-takes-big-leap-forward-powerful-new-electron-injector

Hybrid and Projectile turrets already have their barrel diameter in the name (ie. 250mm Railgun) why shouldn't lasers carry their wattage in the name? It fits nicely into a science fiction universe. The gigawatt values here very roughly reflect the actual energy consumption of the lasers too (though your resident physicist could certainly do a better job than me).

So this my proposal:

Frigate lasers
Light 2 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Gatling Pulse Laser)
Light 3 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Dual Light Pulse Laser)
Light 4 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Pulse Laser)

Cruiser lasers
Medium 10 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Medium Focused Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 15 Gigawatt)
Medium 20 Gigawatt Pulse Laser (formerly Heavy Pulse Laser)

Battleship lasers
Large 50 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Heavy Pulse Laser)
... (if it existed, this laser would be 75 Gigawatt)
Large 100 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Mega Pulse Laser)

Capital lasers
X-Large 500 Gigawatt Laser (formerly Dual Giga Pulse Laser)

After that you, can add the usual meta prefixes (upgraded, limited, experimental, prototype)

Distinctive features of each turret, such as certain laser turrets having 2 "barrels", can be acknowledged in the description of the module.


The only real name change I have announced so far, since Gatling is still Gatling, is Medium to Focused. The rest of it, the formatting of the meta levels and such, would still apply to using wattage in the name.

For example the 75mm Railgun is:
75mm Carbide Railgun I
75mm Compressed Coil Gun I
etc.

So the meta level information still needs to exist. I would be interested in knowing if people would prefer the lasers have names, such as Gatling, Dual, Focused, etc. Or wattage numbers.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2012-08-14 15:15:56 UTC
Syndic Thrass wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
Yep, using watts or something like it makes a lot of sense.


Capacitors are charged in like Giga Joules or some such **** so naming them by Watts would A. Lead to boring as all hell names and B. Quite on the contrary, it would make no sense whatsoever seeing as Watts measure power and joules measure energy, I think ou lost a t somewhere in that naming convention of yours.


I also don't really like how people would then expect the weapon to use that amount of capacitor. Especially when it is effected by skills and meta level. O_O

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.