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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 Feedback

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Author
Ghazu
#321 - 2012-08-14 12:50:04 UTC
Thanks for fixing the stuck module overlay so quickly :)

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus
Blades of Grass
#322 - 2012-08-14 12:50:52 UTC
First they came for a 90K skill and I didn't speak out because I didn't have that 90K skill.
Then they came for a 200K skill and I didn't speak out because I didn't have that 200K skill.
Now they come for my 2 Mill skill and there is nobody left to speak for me because the precedent has been established.

So,
we have a skill that was used to deal with an old game mechanic. That mechanic has now gone away so the skill is no longer needed.
We have a new skill introduced to deal with a new, unrelated, game mechanic. It's the same difficulty so we'll just get it in place of the old skill.

This is very different from having an old skill that still deals with something different that exits but has been rebalanced. SC pilots with Drone skills can still use drones if they change hulls. Pilots who had sensor damper skills or hybrid weapon skills before they were nerfed could still use those items, and indeed for hybrids they are now doing that after they have been rebalanced.

For skills before learning skills, when they were removed they only impacted a smallish number of people so CCP got away without a SP refund. For learning skills they had a mechanism available after some really prolonged downtime issues and since it was going to affect almost everybody they used that mechanism.

That mechanism is still available. It should be used since the old skill was removed because the game mechanic which it influenced no longer exists. It's not been nerfed, not been buffed, it has been removed and given to everybody for free.

This is a matter of principle, of maintaining good precedents that have been set in the past.
CCP, you have the tools you need to do the right thing. Please do it so that we can have confidence that you will do the right thing in the future, like when you redo ship hulls and their skills. Because when we get there it'll be an eye watering number of skills points and we need the confidence to know that you'll care and do the right thing to ensure "People will still be able to fly the hulls they used to" rather than "Hey, here's a new hull in place of an unrelated old one, have a skill to fly that because it's a cool thing we want you to use more and we reused some ID numbers".
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#323 - 2012-08-14 13:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
I LOVE the new condensed tooltip...could maybe do away with the pretty pictures still though.

I'm still not a fan of the delay...

Can you make it more consistant as to what info is shown...would be nice to see ranges for mods like Survey Scanners...(i'm sure there are others that i have yet to use)

Also, why did you change the tooltip's laser dmg away from the %? Telling me how much actual dmg it has is way less than useful, b/c then i still have to open up 'info' to see how many HP's the crystal has before i know how damaged it actually is.

Atleast thats how it seems b/c you took away the % sign...which lends itself to meaning an actual amount rather than ratio...

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#324 - 2012-08-14 14:43:24 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
I LOVE the new condensed tooltip...could maybe do away with the pretty pictures still though.

I'm still not a fan of the delay...

Can you make it more consistant as to what info is shown...would be nice to see ranges for mods like Survey Scanners...(i'm sure there are others that i have yet to use)

Also, why did you change the tooltip's laser dmg away from the %? Telling me how much actual dmg it has is way less than useful, b/c then i still have to open up 'info' to see how many HP's the crystal has before i know how damaged it actually is.

Atleast thats how it seems b/c you took away the % sign...which lends itself to meaning an actual amount rather than ratio...

hmmm... are you sure the laser damage was given as percentage? Because I did find it a bit weird that module damage was given as percentage and crystal damage wasn't.

I can check it out on a reference server later today.

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur

Tomytronic
Perkone
Caldari State
#325 - 2012-08-14 15:20:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomytronic
A shame you guys haven't fixed the overview bug yet. We're pretty sick and tired of shouting "these neutrals are blue!" over comms every time someone cynos in or jumps through a gate. It's a serious problem that has apparently gone ignored for quite some time - it affects every nullsec player daily and yet it remains unfixed :(
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#326 - 2012-08-14 15:41:18 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Panhead4411 wrote:
I LOVE the new condensed tooltip...could maybe do away with the pretty pictures still though.

I'm still not a fan of the delay...

Can you make it more consistant as to what info is shown...would be nice to see ranges for mods like Survey Scanners...(i'm sure there are others that i have yet to use)

Also, why did you change the tooltip's laser dmg away from the %? Telling me how much actual dmg it has is way less than useful, b/c then i still have to open up 'info' to see how many HP's the crystal has before i know how damaged it actually is.

Atleast thats how it seems b/c you took away the % sign...which lends itself to meaning an actual amount rather than ratio...

hmmm... are you sure the laser damage was given as percentage? Because I did find it a bit weird that module damage was given as percentage and crystal damage wasn't.

I can check it out on a reference server later today.
There is a lesson to be learned here -- for CCP.

Why isn't the functionality (and past functionality) documented in plain language for reference?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Sire Magnus
TLP Intergalactic Corp
#327 - 2012-08-14 19:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sire Magnus
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Sire Magnus wrote:
3rd update patch and the reprocessing value of retrievers is still not in line with the new build costs. What?

I sincerely hope it is not part of CCP's master plan to reduce the reprocess values on all t1 ships, because that would destroy the foundation of eve industry.

I am not saying that reprocess itself is a foundation of industry, but the ability to remove under-priced items and reprocess them allows the markets to be self-cleaning and keeps prices at a profitable level.
Without it, markets will overpopulate and manufacturing will come to a complete halt .. which will in turn affect the mineral markets and finally diminish all of the t1 manufacturing industry



The T1 reprocessing values will not be in line with the new build costs.

There are people out there who saw the changes coming and put /thousands/ of barges in to build. All at the low costs.

If they could reprocess at full, you've just had a /massive/ injection of minerals.

Look at the procurer. Its mineral requirements have gone up by a factor of 10 or so. Do you want to hand this largess to people?


They won't go up. It's the only clean way to handle this. They haven't reduced the reprocess value for the ships. They just haven't increased it.


the mineral you are talking about a irrelevant. There will be just as many minerals added to the market that are not used to build new retrievers.

Assuming:
1) retrievers are not worth reprocessing
2) the retriever market is bloated with more product than can be consumed and prices have fallen below the build value

Result:
1) Builders will stop building retrievers.
2) Builders will either:
2.a) stop buying the minerals they were using to build retrievers.
2.b) if they were mining for mins to build with they will now sell those minerals in the market
2.c) They will use those minerals to build other items which will increase the product load of the new item and affect its costs similarly.

I am not saying that the barges alone will crash the markets .. i was saying if they plan to reduce the reprocess value of everything as part of their rebalance plan then the t1 industry will not survive.

The amount of minerals in a thousand retrievers would only build a few freighters .. and that is insignificant compared to the total volume of minerals sold each day.

If your crying about the fact that a few shrewd marketers are going to make a few billion because of the patch, get over it .. they do that almost every patch. Look at all the people who lost out on this patch .. check the price of large cargo rigs and imagine how many of them became completely worthless. I feel sorry for the last person to buy a hulk BPO, since they probably paid something in the range of five years profit before they can break even... which now means they will never get their money back out of it ( I would assume a loss of close to 100bil in value). A patch is a patch. Some people win some people lose. Get over it and get on with life. My point is this: with the reprocess values wrecked the industry system is broken. CCP needs to stop trying to force the economy, they are just destroying the natural market ecosystem.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#328 - 2012-08-14 20:28:08 UTC
Still in this release the new inventory system got a unbelievable bad performance when just one other character at a pos is manipulating anything in any hangar anywhere. All other clients lag out to full stop for a second.

I still cant believe that this made it live in the first place. Sad
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#329 - 2012-08-15 10:40:43 UTC
The new smaller module tooltips are awesome, but I actually dislike the delay very much. Instant tooltips were much better. Best solution would be to make them instant again but provide an option to disable them completely, for the haters.

.

Steijn
Quay Industries
#330 - 2012-08-15 12:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Steijn
I still think the tooltips need to be made optional. Im frequently in a position where my mouse is hovering over a shield booster for pulsing reasons etc, therefore having the tooltip continually sat there is distracting, annoying and not needed.

Also find the lag encountered doing anything at a POS has returned with a vengeance with the latest patch.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#331 - 2012-08-15 15:17:55 UTC
tutorial icon still wont' go away from the neocom
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2012-08-15 18:58:29 UTC
Made 2 posts on it now.

Since the patch, when in fleet, my drones has the same color brackets as the drones belonging to another in fleet. It's stupid that my drones apperence doesnt differ from the other drones in fleet, cause i want to see what the hell my drones are doing.

Otherwise good patch
Stigman Zuwadza
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#333 - 2012-08-16 02:11:39 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Aura is a lovely lady, but I do not wish to see her every time I log on.

Is there a way to 'disable' her?



This ....same with the Corporation icon iirc. Roll

Fly safe. o7

It's broken and it's been broken for a long time and it'll be broken for some time to come.

DeathBeforeDishonour
Mercenaries of Mayhem
#334 - 2012-08-16 05:51:35 UTC
Yeah - Tutorial Icon that keeps reappearing.

Oh and the Unified Inventory that was supposed to have been fixed, but looks like it was "unfixed" and is just as crappy as it has ever been.
For example: Inventory windows don't "remember" if the Filter option was expanded or collapsed, for ANY and EVERY inventory window, IN AND OUT of station (in every ship, every POS, etc, regardless of how many times you have been in that ship, on that toon, opening that container, within the last few minutes/days/weeks/etc).

The "Item" Icon that decides you really don't want to look at your hangar inventory, but would rather display the contents of your Pod cargo bay (WTF ?!?!?) (or whatever ship you are currently in).

Or like how if you have your Hangar window open and undock, suddenly it is now your Ship Cargohold window, regardless of where you normally would have that window positioned.

Or how when you click the icon to open your cargo hold, it opens in the same location/size window that your Item (Hangar) window would normally open in. Of course, if you use "shift-click" it opens where it should, but if there is a specific icon to open a specific thing, why do I have to "shift-click" to have it open where I want ? It's not like I can click the same icon IN STATION and therefore confuse the client about which CARGO HOLD window I want to open.

Same goes for POS mods. Seems odd if I click on a POCO and then the "Access Storage" icon, the POCO window opens where I had it set previously, but if I click on a POS mod and then click the "Access Storage " icon, it opens the window in the same place as my Item (hangar) Inventory window, unless (again) I use the "shift-click", which (again) if there is a specific icon to open a specific thing, why do I have to "shift-click" to have it open where I want ?

Oh yeah - another feature that I really, REALLY like is the way that, when you transfer a large number of items from one window to another (say, from a trade window to your inventory, or from Inventory to a corp hangar, or from a cargo hold to a CHA) the inventory tree has to refresh after EACH item is moved. Item moves, inventory tree refreshes, next item moves, tree refreshes, next item (etc, etc).
That is and especially AWESOME feature when transferring a couple hundred items at a time ! Simply AMAZES me to have to sit there waiting and waiting until finally the last item gets moved and the tree refreshes for the last time !

Ah forget it. I give up on this crap. Maybe they'll refix it (again) in 2-3 years. Or not. After all, it has been YEARS and I still can't get the Trade window to open where I want it, regardless if I pin/unpin/resize/relocate it 3,000 times.
Josef Djugashvilis
#335 - 2012-08-16 07:10:44 UTC
Uriskall Kafshaz wrote:
EvilEvilEvilEvil how in the world can i turn off this horrible Module mouseover enhancement..... it messing up my grove ... please have an op out of this feature ... or a turn off in esc Menu or something .... take it off EvilEvilEvilEvilEvil


You will have Bob hope or no hope.Smile

This is not a signature.

Keldon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#336 - 2012-08-16 11:12:16 UTC
So can we have patch notes for todays update?
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#337 - 2012-08-16 11:23:34 UTC
Keldon wrote:
So can we have patch notes for todays update?


Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2012-08-16 11:29:36 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Keldon wrote:
So can we have patch notes for todays update?


Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information.


Sould'nt you guys know what you are patching before you are doing it?

I thought first came then list then the stuff on it. Straight
backtrace
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#339 - 2012-08-16 11:29:42 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information

Does it mean that you release updates w/o knowing exactly what's going in there? Hm... why am I not surprised?
Gregor Zar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2012-08-16 11:33:32 UTC
backtrace wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Yes, the patch notes will be updated as soon as possible but it still might take a little bit to receive all necessary information

Does it mean that you release updates w/o knowing exactly what's going in there? Hm... why am I not surprised?


Some things never change...