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new POSes and wormholes - what do w-space dwellers need?

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Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#221 - 2012-08-14 09:15:20 UTC
Joachim Weiss wrote:
Let their false sense of security be their consolation for living in silly little baby wormholes.


Lets see here. Where is that kick corp button again?......Evil

No trolling please
Sp0ki3
Perkone
Caldari State
#222 - 2012-08-14 10:18:02 UTC
I just want logs for the arrays to see where items are being moved and by who.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2012-08-14 11:23:53 UTC
Joachim Weiss wrote:

I must say that the idea of limiting POS size in wormholes is beyond silly. The idea to reduce ECM on a POS sounds nice, but even that addresses a problem that I don't think really exists. If someone wants that POS dead bad enough, there are plenty of ways and plenty of people who can do the job. Let their false sense of security be their consolation for living in silly little baby wormholes.


I agree and i think limiting large POS's to high class wormholes at this stage would be totally unreasonable.

Punishing people for living in a c1-c3 after they have spent years developing and securing a wormhole system is not the way to go. Everyone should have to same abilities and benefits as they do now (including static pos defenses) but people in C4-C6 should get additions benefits/features.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Dino Boff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2012-08-14 11:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dino Boff
POS hit points or defences capabilities should scale down in lower class wormholes, but other features should be the same. Higher class wormholes are farther away from empire space and station services but that's a trade off we accept when moving there to get better rewards (both in PVE and PVP).
Monica Lesture
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2012-08-14 12:01:05 UTC
Two Step in a " I have now clue about (lower class) WH PVP after my corp bunkered for years in a C6 and now are on the verge of collapse due to inactivity" non-shocker.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2012-08-14 12:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Dino Boff wrote:
POS hit points or defences capabilities should scale down in lower class wormholes, but other features should be the same. Higher class wormholes are farther away from empire space and station services but that's a trade off we accept when moving there to get better rewards (both in PVE and PVP).


If the system was originally designed that way sure but the fact is, it wan't and we have all had to deal with the ****** POS system.

It's not impossible to take out a pos in low end wormholes no matter how well defended they are. It's all down to the attackers determination.

Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
kapolov
Doomheim
#227 - 2012-08-14 12:07:57 UTC
Dino Boff wrote:
POS hit points or defences capabilities should scale down in lower class wormholes, but other features should be the same. Higher class wormholes are farther away from empire space and station services but that's a trade off we accept when moving there to get better rewards (both in PVE and PVP).


If your going to put forward an stupid idea you should at the least explain why?

Why should we risk the 10's of billions in assets that we have just as a small corp in a C4 and be forced to live out of a POS with the defence and HP of a small POS, a small POS that any rag tag bunch of idiots with a fleet comp put together by a monkey could easilly handle.

Yeah lets make all low class WH's the entertainment for people while they can't find any C5/C6 cap fights. Roll
kapolov
Doomheim
#228 - 2012-08-14 12:09:29 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too?



A good point made, if we can no longer have a fortress why should you have more than three caps at a time.
Dino Boff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2012-08-14 12:41:38 UTC
POS have been design for empire and null sec.; they have too much HP and their defences are OP for small gang pvp we do in w-space.

Beside with the short life wormhole connection, what does protect a POS (or a POCO) in w-space is its timer (for all wormhole classes).
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#230 - 2012-08-14 12:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nash MacAllister
Jack Miton wrote:
Nash MacAllister wrote:
I respectfully disagree with this statement. To say that living in a C2 somehow poses less risk is absurd. We have the same risk to our POS as you do.


oh please, youre just embarrassing yourself.
comparing POS sieges in a c5/6 to a c2 is just stupid, at best ignorant.

POS defences on a C5/6 POS are basically decorative since any attacking fleet will have a LEAST 3, more likely a half dozen or more, dreads which can ignore them.
attacking a decked out dickstar in a low class WH is THE single most tedious and horribly painful thing you can do in a WH.

yes, obviously it can be done regardless of POS setup, even in a C1.
however, attacking a low class large POS with 100+ online ECM mods (which all low class POSs should have if they know what theyre doing, most dont) is beyond painful.


Your attitude and elitism on the matter is laughable and part of the underlying problem here. It would seem that you, Two Step, and many others feel that to be a "real" WH corp, you must strive to live in a C5/C6. And therefore, you create 2 classes of pilots/corps. Until that ridiculousness is abandoned, there will be serious challenges to making any of the proposed changes work for WH dwellers as a whole. And what we need is to make it a BETTER experience for new corps and players coming into w-space. More people successfully living in w-space = more encounters and potentially more fights which I know we would all love to see...

EDIT: Interesting point is that while I am 100% against scaling down the lower class WH, I am not against scaling up the C5/C6. If you want to add benefits to living in a C5/C6 then I can live with that. I have no illusions what sort of DPS a few dreads can bring to a POS bash, been there, done that. Give the C5/C6 guys something to help mitigate the Cap threat. But don't screw the lower class wh dwellers in doing so by limiting their POS or defensive selection. All that does is discourage people from living in w-space and that is bad for all of us. WH life is supposed to be hard, and unique, but there are some simple changes as I mentioned previously that could make it a lot better without losing what it already is.

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
kapolov
Doomheim
#231 - 2012-08-14 12:44:15 UTC
Dino Boff wrote:
POS have been design for empire and null sec.; they have too much HP and their defences are OP for small gang pvp we do in w-space.

Beside with the short life wormhole connection, what does protect a POS (or a POCO) in w-space is its timer (for all wormhole classes).


I seriously cant believe you still speak with that much crap dribbling out. It's unbelievable.
Dino Boff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2012-08-14 12:49:33 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too?


Please no, we want more capitals to shoot at, not less.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#233 - 2012-08-14 12:51:57 UTC
Dino Boff wrote:
POS have been design for empire and null sec.; they have too much HP and their defences are OP for small gang pvp we do in w-space.

Beside with the short life wormhole connection, what does protect a POS (or a POCO) in w-space is its timer (for all wormhole classes).


Their defenses are OP for "small gang pvp"? Uh... no. Small gangs were never intended to be able to steamroll towers, in any area of space.
kapolov
Doomheim
#234 - 2012-08-14 12:55:31 UTC
Dino Boff wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too?


Please no, we want more capitals to shoot at, not less.


Then take your caps and go invade a fully fortified C5/C6 for a complete eviction. Ohh wait that's to hard right? Perhaps if you changed **** up to suit your entertainment value then it would be ok.

The fact is that C5/C6 evictions happen a hell of a lot less than they do in lower class holes and you guys somehow think that our end is unbalanced. The naivety is palpable.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#235 - 2012-08-14 13:00:19 UTC
heres a crazy idea regarding docking games, towers in c1s, etc:

dont fix what isn't broken
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#236 - 2012-08-14 13:10:59 UTC
We've done full invasions several times in c6 and c5's.

It takes a lot of work and even for smaller entities a full weeks work.

We don't need to make it harder to invade wormholes. Quite the opposite.


In honesty though, it will be virtually impossible to kick out any one from smaller class wormholes if timers are set to weeks. It would require a tremendous tedious effort of pos bashing against an already defeated foe if we were to store our chars there for decades.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2012-08-14 13:14:45 UTC
Yeah well week long reinforcement timers are a stupid idea too.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-08-14 13:15:35 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Give the C5/C6 guys something to help mitigate the Cap threat. But don't screw the lower class wh dwellers in doing so by limiting their POS or defensive selection.


Living in a C5 myself, I can tell you that we already have a pretty effective way of dealing with hostile caps that folks in lower class wormholes don't have. Namely, our own cap fleet.

I think the `balance` currently in being able to attack / defend a wormhole system are fine. I am against nerfing lower class wormholes, and I am against buffing highter classes. Like many already said before, a lower class wormhole is harder to invade (although inpractise that would remain to be seen) but you pay a huge price in pve income. That price is actually pretty substantial compared to a C5 or C6. POS'es in C1's should be the same as in C6's.

In addition to that, EVE isn't fair nor was it intended to be. If you are able to muster more power then some one else (be it by sheer numbers or more powerfull friends or whatever), then you have the right to claim what is his. This is one of the things for me that defines what EVE is. I don't think there should be a game mechanic to influence those effects, especially not in wpace.
Meytal
Doomheim
#239 - 2012-08-14 13:23:31 UTC
I would say that it's MORE dangerous to live in a C2/HS/? than it is a C6/C6, because you would constantly have visitors coming in and out. And unless you have absolute control over your HS exit(s) -- and most people don't -- your system is wide open for anyone to wander in and provide intelligence to the rest of his group.

The issue with sieging well-defended systems isn't from actual shooting of the tower, it's from committing your time and resources to a prolonged operation. You limit yourself to primarily attacking that one target and giving up the occasion to look for other targets. Not many people really want to do this, whether you have dreads or not. Remember, unless you're suggesting something to CCP that we don't know about, we aren't fighting for Sov in w-space. Those TCUs in w-space don't do anything; they're just noob magnets. We're just looking for fights in general, preferably good ones.

W-space isn't Nullsec. You don't just get a bug up your butt allof a sudden and decide you want to evict half the residents from a region because there is a nice moon in there somewhere, hotdrop in your 100s of caps, blap blap for a few minutes, and come back the next day. Evictions are generally reserved for settling grudges, and are the last resort. We don't enjoy sitting around picking our noses waiting for reinforce timers while guarding bubbled holes and towers. We only do it when we have to or for a good cause, such as the large group kicking AAA out of their farming C6.

Dropping a temporary tower to provoke the occupants is a better way to get fights than sieging a system. I bet if you dropped a tower in any of the home systems of the corps in this thread, you'd get a nice fight. Y'know, I bet that fight would even be right on the tower too. This is a great use for small towers. You can't actually live out of them very well.

With a decent w-space static, that C2 corp could take in a lot of ISK. See, when you can't cap escalate the same sites every day, you chain-farm your statics; something you might have lost sight of living in a C6/C6. And unless you like blue-on-blue action, those of us in PvP corps/alliances hunt our statics too.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#240 - 2012-08-14 13:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashimat
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Living in a C5 myself, I can tell you that we already have a pretty effective way of dealing with hostile caps that folks in lower class wormholes don't have. Namely, our own cap fleet.

Well...

You can have as much caps in a C2 that you have in a C6, only difference is they all will belong to the ones defending the place and they all are to be considered a investment in the system. I know that in reality, that don't have the effect you would think it would on paper, but still...

I agree that the balance is pretty good as it is now thou. Maybe with a POS ECM nerf.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com