Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I admit .. I lol'ed when i saw the Thrasher was "basically unchanged." Devs must seriusly love the Matari.

I'm still trying to figure out the intent here as it drives the ship design.

What I keep seeing on the BBS here is folk want them to effectively be low-end new tier3 BC's but for frigates, i.e. all alpha gank, no tank. In that case, 1 mid is fine, up the scan res so you can actually lock and shoot a frigate before it warps.

That's really the only role I can see here. Chasing somebody down is a interceptors job and straight out brawling would be an assault frigate (which owns dessies).

Would like to see, instead of cookie cutter with each races having the same thing other than model (i.e. the new tier3 bc's) is maybe adopting them to racial play style. Make the minnie dessie more of a brawler (with buffer for the gate guns), the amarr more alpha fit, the caldari and gallant more tacklish (given the missile/drone damage delay).

What I DON'T want is what I'm seeing with the frigates is dps is creep where we make everything do triple dps and give it triple tank just so folk can say "wow I do 10K dps and have a 5M tank". Hitting for 2 dps is the same as 800 dps is you quit tank creeping. I also don't want to get into the situation, like with the AF's and Tech 3's, where they own the next level or two up the totem pole. The new AF's are going toe-to-toe with T1 cruisers and Tech3's with BS's .. that is wrong as it's going to force you to keep balancing everything up which is the doom of the vast majority of long lived paper-based games, i.e.each new sourcebook triples the damage.

Nvm... it's been addressed

Unfortunately some of us don't give a damn about (T1) destroyers. I haven't flown one in the last 3 years and don't intend to ever in the future.

I know why these changes are necessary: You think DUST players will want decent ships within the first 30 seconds of starting EVE, something they can get into a fight with and hope to kill something. While I can see why you want to satisfy them, have you considered that any DUST player that lacks the patience to wait a few weeks to get into decent ship won't become a long term EVE subscriber anyway?

I think you are spending too much time on balancing the beginner ships at the expense of leaving serious gameplay issues that affect older players completely unfixed. In particular, I would rather see a post about giving supercaps proper roles and abilities than about adding 6 CPU to a destroyer.

Gush, FIX CRUISERS instead or as well... Dessies are nice to have but most of the players are not in FW

dont want to be picky but you didnt add the 125hp to the thrashers hull

I have to agree with Kuehnelt. Coercer has a really bad cap problem and it is not really possible to make any use in fleets with this ship. You run faster out of cap than you can imagine.
TBH Thrasher is so much overpowered in comparison ti the other dessies that I believe that only an artillery nerf can do sth.
I mean artillery is really tooooo good. Thrasher can everthing. Shortrange damage and tank monster, long range killing machine. Aditionally it is one or even the fasted destroyer. It has no weaknesses. Weird.
I will say it again: Buff the other destroyers more (coercer more cap and cpu, cormorant needs REALLY more buff, catalyst I don´t know) and nerf artillery.
Main problem with Coercer is really the risk. No Cormorant, Catalyst or Thrasher needs to take 2.5mil isk ammunition minimum to be able to fire all weapons. Coercer for long and short range ammo at least costs minimum 5mil isk. No other dessie has such big risks.
Again: big Risk= good ship, little risk=bad ship. Thats how it should be. It wouldn´t even be that bad if Coercer would be a litle bit op (only a little bit and not minmatar like op) because of these risks.
You want fast skirmish in a Thrasher? 0.8m in ammo is more than enough. You want fast skirmish in a coercer and be able to shoot at long and short range? You need 5mil isk in ammo minimum in cargo. That is more than 6 times the amount Thrasher needs.
And additionally with these stats a coercer can fire a minute with good skills. Thrasher can fire almost the same damage until he goes out of ammo. That is really not a good rebalancing.

When solo though, the -10% laser cap usage bonus is next to worthless.

This is why the cap usage bonus sucks. It's so situational.

No, it's much, much longer. DLP activation cost is twice that of the highest-tier blaster, and DLP cycle faster.

Coercer capacitor would not need to be buffed "a little bit" to compensate for losing the cap use bonus. It'd need more than a halving of its recharge rate, or it'd need more than a doubling of its capacitor amount.

*shrug*, that takes more than 30 seconds.

But OK, a +5% resist bonus, including the proposed Winter changes, gives you 14k EHP (19k EM, 14k Thermal, 12k other) with a damage control, 400mm plate (which fits easily), EANM, and trimarks.

The TQ Coercer is better at everything but the EM resist with a similar fit (+1 EANM), but it's harder to fit.