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A possible solution to AFK cloaky alts First post
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Lyris Nairn

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 12,423

#261 - 2011-10-12 21:47:51 UTC

Every time you complain about an AFK cloaker making it impossible for you to do whatever it is you want to do, you are admitting that someone else is controlling your game. I would not be so proud and loud in admitting that. On the other hand, I am an odd fellow who enjoys shemales, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

The Apostle

Doomheim

Likes received: 942

#262 - 2011-10-12 21:52:02 UTC

It amazes me some of the posts. AFK is not a threat etc.... Pfft...

Method: AFK cloak
Threat: Hotdrop
Reason: Area denial

It IS very effective at preventing alliance members from making any isk, period. It has nothing to with "botting". A hotdrop does NOT have to occur for it to be a threat. An occassional drop might show intent and highlight the risk making them more effective.

I've had many convos with neuts and they have stated categorically that area denial was the ONLY reason they were in system. In one instance we had 5 systems covered by AFK cloakies and they stayed for more than 6 days, 24 hours a day, often joking about what else they were doing (sleeping etc.) while their cloakies sat - doing nothing - and locked down the systems.

Going to "another system" (an oft used argument) IS an option yes, but the sanctum nerf made many areas useless. Most alliances do not allow blues from other alliances to share grounds.

It DOES put pressure on the average 0.0 player (who might rat, does a few roams and join CTA's) and is VERY effective when deployed over many days.

It is NOT comparable to a cloaky in WH's because they do not need to deploy probes to locate targets. Agreed, you cannot see a cloaky in local in a WH so must assume they are always there, but I CAN see when he launches probes. It's defendable.

Removing local is NOT a aolution unless you accept that ignorance is bliss. If we had no intel at all we simply would not be there.

And yes, it is NOT an issue to players who deploy and use AFK cloaking as a method to deny systems.

Yes, actively cloaking for gathering of intel and hotdropping are valid game mechanics and I have no problem with it. I have no problem with cloaking.

I have a problem with people that are as effective as a 50 man red fleet and they are in bed asleep while doing it.

We can argue black and blue over the points. I've tried to summarise and condense down to a single argument.

Make cloaks degrade over time. Simple. Active cloakers, scouts, intel gatherers and hotdroppers will have no problem going "click" occasionally.

Cloakies that are in bed, are dead.

Why is this a problem?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Renan Ruivo

Forcas armadas

Brave Collective

Likes received: 1,019

#263 - 2011-10-12 21:53:48 UTC

Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

Lyris Nairn wrote:

Hey guys, we get it. We understand that when you say "AFK Cloaker," you are not literally referring to someone whom is AFK. You are referring to the ability of someone to sit in local, AFK or otherwise, for prolonged periods of time while cloaked and then suddenly tackle you and bring in friends to kill you. What we keep saying to you is that there is a very simple way for you to avoid this: go to another system to do your PVE activities when you see a neutral or hostile alt in local.

Or just get in a group and rat with your friends

well how well you can asset the danger you are in ? how much friends you gonna need ?

titan bridge 1k+ BS and support ? full cap fleet ? 3 drakes ?

per say / while afk he cant do anything

deception is in play here, you simply dont know. Only reasonable thing to do is just log off and check next day.. in case you cant ratt/mine in other system. In case you can you just move not an big deal.

Then do know. Cyno jammers and intel channels are your friends, and so is knowing your whereabout and knowing the minimum range/system a gang needs to be at to jump at you.

I guarantee you that a 1k fleet won't pass by a semi-competent intel channel.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.


Renan Ruivo Forcas armadas Brave Collective Likes received: 1,019	#264 - 2011-10-12 21:57:20 UTC 1 And i also agree with having to make the cloaker "click" every hour or so. If you're going AFK and have no desire to hurt anybody like you stated, log off. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Endeavour Starfleet

Likes received: 968

#265 - 2011-10-12 22:43:24 UTC | Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet

Renan Ruivo wrote:

And i also agree with having to make the cloaker "click" every hour or so. If you're going AFK and have no desire to hurt anybody like you stated, log off.

Making anything directly timed would likely make it too easy to make some marco to defeat it. Atleast if you make it so a probe can uncloak you. That will make it that much harder to defeat because it is not just a simple timer. Under my plan if someone dosent use the probes an AFK cloaker can still operate the same. For if someone dosent invest in the time and skill to use the probes then they cant defeat the threat. Giving the AFK cloaker risk is what is needed.

Edit: Tho at this point I will gladly accept other methods such as overheat. Slow cap drain, or fuel ideas to remove the issue. My plan will have the least impact on active cloakers but they can adapt to the other methods if needed.

The Greater Goon 2,023
Morganta The Greater Goon Likes received: 2,023	#266 - 2011-10-12 22:50:35 UTC solutions are useful when a problem exists I see no problem here, so why offer a solution? umad or something?

Endeavour Starfleet

Likes received: 968

#267 - 2011-10-12 22:56:13 UTC | Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet

Lillian Elle wrote:

Tech 2 Scanning Probes, that at best will get you to 5000 m from the cloaked ship.

Not a bad idea. Maybe 5-10 KM So that you have to move about to find the AFK cloaker like in the days of WW2 submarine hunting. As long as it is POSSIBLE to find and kill the AFK cloaker I support the idea. We just have to be careful that it is slow enough to scan that it docent affect the ability of active players. Also I worry about the ability of such direct probes to reveal the purpose of the cloaker. Perhaps make it a random point in space to scan until you get to 100 percent then it shows the real location?

Edit: I see another issue that could be abused with this idea. Someone could show up in a drake and another launch a bomb at it to form a 15KM blast that would obviously cause damage to the cloaker. It could be considered right as some kind of depth charge but I worry about its affect against those actively cloaking. What if he is a slow warper? Perhaps warning that you have been located to be fair.

Morganta

The Greater Goon

Likes received: 2,023

#268 - 2011-10-12 23:02:56 UTC

Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

Lillian Elle wrote:

Tech 2 Scanning Probes, that at best will get you to 5000 m from the cloaked ship.

so wait a second here

you have a problem with people being afk cloakie
but no problem with having a tool to scan them down and pop them while AFK?

you people are serious losers
really just quit and go play lego starwars

Kitty McKitty

In Praise Of Shadows

Likes received: 755

#269 - 2011-10-12 23:06:25 UTC

The Apostle wrote:

It amazes me some of the posts. AFK is not a threat etc.... Pfft...

Method: AFK cloak
Threat: Hotdrop
Reason: Area denial

AFK HOTDROP, this is going to be good...

Quote:

It IS very effective at preventing alliance members from making any isk, period. It has nothing to with "botting". A hotdrop does NOT have to occur for it to be a threat. An occassional drop might show intent and highlight the risk making them more effective.

This is good, if you are too incompetent to handle a single red in your system then you don't deserve to be in 0,0 making isk. Go back to high sec.

Quote:

I've had many convos with neuts and they have stated categorically that area denial was the ONLY reason they were in system. In one instance we had 5 systems covered by AFK cloakies and they stayed for more than 6 days, 24 hours a day, often joking about what else they were doing (sleeping etc.) while their cloakies sat - doing nothing - and locked down the systems.

Talking AFKers, unbelievable!

Quote:

Going to "another system" (an oft used argument) IS an option yes, but the sanctum nerf made many areas useless. Most alliances do not allow blues from other alliances to share grounds.

I wonder how people coped in 0.0 before sanctums existed.

Quote:

It DOES put pressure on the average 0.0 player (who might rat, does a few roams and join CTA's) and is VERY effective when deployed over many days.

Because you are cowards and expect complete immunity from threat. Not even a threat, a perceived threat.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥

Kitty McKitty

In Praise Of Shadows

Likes received: 755

#270 - 2011-10-12 23:06:55 UTC

Quote:

Removing local is NOT a aolution unless you accept that ignorance is bliss. If we had no intel at all we simply would not be there.

Cowardice is your problem, no one elses.

Quote:

Yes, actively cloaking for gathering of intel and hotdropping are valid game mechanics and I have no problem with it. I have no problem with cloaking.

So I take it you have no problem with active players ganking or hotdropping either? If so, you have no issues whatsoever because AFK people cant do these things.

Quote:

I have a problem with people that are as effective as a 50 man red fleet and they are in bed asleep while doing it.

How are they so powerful? They can't do anything, stop being an incompetent coward.

Quote:

We can argue black and blue over the points. I've tried to summarise and condense down to a single argument.

there have been thousands of threads on this subject and this one raises absolutely nothing new.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥

Renan Ruivo

Forcas armadas

Brave Collective

Likes received: 1,019

#271 - 2011-10-12 23:08:14 UTC | Edited by: Renan Ruivo

Thing is i want a method to catch cloakers. Not because they prevent me from ratting because i can rat just fine with them on system.. but because i don't like the idea of anything being 100% safe while flying in space. Overheat, cloak fuel, probe that drops me within 10km from him i don't care.

Local or no local I want to have tools to find him.

Or are you scared of being popped? You want to be perfectly safe, pretty thing?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Endeavour Starfleet

Likes received: 968

#272 - 2011-10-12 23:12:47 UTC

Renan Ruivo wrote:

Thing is i want a method to catch cloakers. Not because they prevent me from ratting because i can rat just fine with them on system.. but because i don't like the idea of anything being 100% safe while flying in space. Overheat, cloak fuel, probe that drops me within 10km from him i don't care.

I want to have tools to find him.

Or are you scared of being popped? You want to be perfectly safe, pretty thing?

Well active cloaking needs to be protected as much as possible. But I agree. If you go AFK in my system I want to have the chance even if its reasonable and not perfect. To find and destroy you. It is THAT simple.

My probe idea would work without seriously affecting active cloaking (And active cloakers would get a laugh frustrating efforts to locate them with probes) While inactive afk cloakers who are still logged in would be at risk and thus eventually located and destroyed. This would reward the efforts of active cloakers.

Morganta

The Greater Goon

Likes received: 2,023

#273 - 2011-10-12 23:13:29 UTC

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

Morganta

The Greater Goon

Likes received: 2,023

#274 - 2011-10-12 23:14:54 UTC | Edited by: Morganta

Morganta wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

and fyi if you want to the tools to catch them you have them
gates
stations
bubbles
session changes
logoffs
downtime
bait

damn quote button....

Endeavour Starfleet

Likes received: 968

#275 - 2011-10-12 23:15:41 UTC

Morganta wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

Let's keep the thread on topic folks. Which is finding a solution that is not a total nerfbat to the issue of being risk free in a cloak while in a hostile system while away from the PC or otherwise not paying attention to the client.

Renan Ruivo

Forcas armadas

Brave Collective

Likes received: 1,019

#276 - 2011-10-12 23:18:15 UTC | Edited by: Renan Ruivo

Morganta wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

You quoted me twice and yet you failed to read properly.

Quote:

i don't like the idea of anything being 100% safe while flying in space

Try not to fail at telling someone that he failed.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Morganta

The Greater Goon

Likes received: 2,023

#277 - 2011-10-12 23:22:12 UTC | Edited by: Morganta

Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

Morganta wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

oh you must be the OPs alt

let me break it down for you

why should the cloak ship be subject to a threat if the ship itself is not a threat?

he's AFK...

SAY IT WITH ME NOW!
AFK

he's no threat, he is not deriving any benefit from being there, hes not playing the game, he's not doing ANYTHING
yet because you are a gutless coward you feel he should be subject to a higher risk than he poses to you simply because he has the nerve to be in the same local as your royal highness

no, hell no
learn to play or go the **** away, I for one am sick of knee jerk nerfs and other stupidity thrown at the game lately because of crybabies like you and your main


Renan Ruivo Forcas armadas Brave Collective Likes received: 1,019	#278 - 2011-10-12 23:24:00 UTC Morganta wrote: and fyi if you want to the tools to catch them you have them gates stations bubbles session changes logoffs downtime bait I can't decide if you just didn't grasp the meaning of "tools to catch one" or are just trying to insult me. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Renan Ruivo

Forcas armadas

Brave Collective

Likes received: 1,019

#279 - 2011-10-12 23:27:04 UTC | Edited by: Renan Ruivo

Morganta wrote:

Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

Morganta wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

So let me get this straight.. You are hiding, i want to find you. I'm the coward?

And a hulk is also not a threat, why should he be subject to a threat?

And if you have absolutely no need to be flying in space since you obviously don't want to have any effect whatsoever over anybody while AFK.. why don't you log off?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Endeavour Starfleet

Likes received: 968

#280 - 2011-10-12 23:27:34 UTC

Morganta wrote:

Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

Morganta wrote:

Renan Ruivo wrote:

lol

nice recovery attempt, but you still fail
and guess what? you even got what you wanted...
you're not 100% safe

thanks for playing

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