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How Tier 3 Battlecruisers Killed EVE PVP
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Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2012-08-13 15:05:37 UTC
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:
Dead right, OP. T3 were a stupid addition; they're used almost exclusively for low-cost headshotting on cargoships. Just what Eve didn't need MORE of...
Considering how rare it has become these days, EVE certainly didn't need less of it…
Alara IonStorm
#122 - 2012-08-13 15:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:

You assume too much, catbag. I put a "moderate" amount of items in the only cost effective ship that would hold it, tanked it as completely as possible, and got ganked by an extremely cost-effective ship with a broken risk/reward ratio. In "hisec." (lulz) They don't make battleships with holds big enough to carry a POS, including a cargo-expanded, shield-tanked marauder, so your options are indy, Orca, or freighter, of which the latter two are frankly more goddamn money than you should have to spend to have a semi-decent chance at Arriving Alive with a few hundred mil of cargo.

Buy a Transport Ship or hire someone. An industrial takes a day to train and costs less then a Frigate, they are not optimal haulers for large goods at all.

And yes even a T1 Industrial with full Cargo Expanders and Cargo Rigs can take a Tornado hit if you invest in it. Mammoth, Itty V, Badger II full Cargo Fits above the first strike Volley of a Nado using only their mid slots. Bestower needs a DCU to do it.

I don't assume anything. You lost your ship do to poor planning and investment and 11000 Alpha is nothing to the player who thinks.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#123 - 2012-08-13 15:12:02 UTC
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:
Quote:

So basically you put a huge amount of money in a ship unsuitable to hold it yet still good enough to tank a couple of shots from a Tornado if fit right and what you took away from it are Tornado's are unfair.


You assume too much, catbag. I put a "moderate" amount of items in the only cost effective ship that would hold it, tanked it as completely as possible, and got ganked by an extremely cost-effective ship with a broken risk/reward ratio. In "hisec." (lulz) They don't make battleships with holds big enough to carry a POS, including a cargo-expanded, shield-tanked marauder, so your options are indy, Orca, or freighter, of which the latter two are frankly more goddamn money than you should have to spend to have a semi-decent chance at Arriving Alive with a few hundred mil of cargo....Really, the problem here is that there is no middle-range hauler between an indy and an Orca, but that's been an issue for years.

...That said, I'm with the OP; you all can hate on him all you want, but the fact remains that T3 BCs are frigging easymode for ganks, and useless for anything else. When you show us one used for anything *other* than bullying frigates and indys, maybe we'll be impressed.

Should have used a BR (Meaning Alara was right) and also, learn to quote.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Alara IonStorm
#124 - 2012-08-13 15:26:03 UTC
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:

...That said, I'm with the OP; you all can hate on him all you want, but the fact remains that T3 BCs are frigging easymode for ganks, and useless for anything else. When you show us one used for anything *other* than bullying frigates and indys, maybe we'll be impressed.

Oh, you added more. Ugh T3's have a ton of uses outside ganks.

Oracles are used as fast Scorch fleets and Tach Snipers. Talos, shield kiter and duel web fast BS DPS ship. Nado, whelp fleets, snipers and kiters. Naga Sniper Fleet and 60kEHP DPS Rams with the speed of a shield Cane.

They have a ton of uses. The most hilarious part is cheaper ganks are not one of them. Before their release the Tempest got insurance when it ganked someone and costs about 90mil at the time. It was cheaper to gank back then, than it is now.

There are a dozen fleet doctrines based around these ships. Just because you failed to protect your assets in a game where with an ounce of prevention you could have doesn't mean anything.
Ubiquitous Newt
The F-Bombers
#125 - 2012-08-13 15:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ubiquitous Newt
I think making a point of tanking a ship qualifies as "an ounce" of prevention, thanks. Again: the only other ships that can carry a POS are Orcas, freighters and ...oh, right - cloaky haulers. I freely admit to picking one of those up afterward. Lesson learned.

...I still don't think you'll make a valid argument that hisec Tornado ganking even vaguely constitutes a reasonable "risk vs reward" scenario, however. FFS , that Tornado pilot I ran into has a 38:1 profit ratio. If money gets tight and I decided I'm enough of a jerkass, I might try it myself...

As for me, I bought a viator, moved to nullsec, and lived happily ever after.... but you're gong to hear a loooot of hisec whining over how "unfair" this gig is for a long time, because they are. One-shot kills are annoying, in hisec doubly so.
Viceroy Jane
Demons on Wings
#126 - 2012-08-13 15:49:24 UTC
Tier 3 BCs are the yummiest of all snacks for my bomber.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2012-08-13 15:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Ferrr
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:
I think making a point of tanking a ship qualifies as "an ounce" of prevention, thanks. Again: the only other ships that can carry a POS are Orcas, freighters and ...oh, right - cloaky haulers. I freely admit to picking one of those up afterward. Lesson learned.

...I still don't think you'll make a valid argument that hisec Tornado ganking even vaguely constitutes a reasonable "risk vs reward" scenario, however. FFS , that Tornado pilot I ran into has a 38:1 profit ratio. If money gets tight and I decided I'm enough of a jerkass, I might try it myself...

As for me, I bought a viator, moved to nullsec, and lived happily ever after.... but you're gong to hear a loooot of hisec whining over how "unfair" this gig is for a long time, because they are. One-shot kills are annoying, in hisec doubly so.


It may qualify as a gram of prevention. First off you didn't equip enough tank. I know first hand a proper tanked Iteron Mark V can take 2 strong volleys from Tornados and get away in low armor, so you didn't tank well enough or you lingered too long. Second, more important than tanking is not putting too much in a T1 indy ship. You got ganked because you made it profitable to do so. If you keep less than 100mil in a T1 indy you probably aren't going to get ganked. If you want to fly around with 1bil isk loads get a freighter or a transport ship. Oh and don't autopilot when you have a load full of stuff....

Edit: LOL, Just so everyone else can enjoy this as much as me: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16950731
You are so good at Hulkaggeddon you don't even need to be in your Hulks to get them blown up. Well done!
Alara IonStorm
#128 - 2012-08-13 16:11:56 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:

Edit: LOL, Just so everyone else can enjoy this as much as me: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16950731
You are so good at Hulkaggeddon you don't even need to be in your Hulks to get them blown up. Well done!

Dat Fit. Lol
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#129 - 2012-08-13 16:32:11 UTC
Xinivrae wrote:
I'm pretty sure I can take a stab at what happened to you today...

made me lol

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#130 - 2012-08-13 16:58:52 UTC
Quote:
EVE is being invaded by the Call of Duty "Bro" mentality. This mentality is all about "blapping" and "fragging" and "l33t kills" and "noob tubes".


Yeah, nope.

It's funny how we, as the gamer community, frequently condemn society for using easy scapegoats. But then whenever there's a change we dislike, we immediately turn to those god damn Call of Duty players. How noobish they are or whatever.

I really don't care for Call of Duty. I think the series is far too random and sometimes it seems as though winning or losing is based on a dice roll.

But seriously, it's not deserving of the hate. Just get to the point and stop with your CoD bashing.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#131 - 2012-08-13 17:07:28 UTC
Working as intended. Quit whining...
Mutant Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#132 - 2012-08-13 17:16:27 UTC
Ubiquitous Newt wrote:
Dead right, OP. T3 were a stupid addition; they're used almost exclusively for low-cost headshotting on cargoships. Just what Eve didn't need MORE of...


...funny story for you about that... I got ganked by a Tornado about a month ago in Hatakani in my trusty indy with "really a bit too much" cargo. This ganking character has made over 700 billion and lost under 40 with the "nuclear strike on a busload of nuns" hunting method. ...Fine, but he'd pay a little extra for it this time, I decided. I trained the T2 large blasters I'd been neglecting, bought an insured Megathron, and stalked. and stalked. Eventually I realized his -10sec ass had to be hiding at a safepoint...so I scanned, and scanned, and holy of holies, found him in his capsule next to a Tornado...got my guns, warped to him annnnd...

...and nothing happened. Sure, I locked him. But you can't shoot capsules, and you can't shoot empty ships. As I went to go dump my megathron for something smaller, he docked, and the goat rapist literally hasn't been online since. Pretty sure he's waiting out my killrights.

Morals of the story?
-Learning experiences: hardly ever overrated
-T3 Battlecruisers are unfair as hell. One shot alpha, maybe 2 tops, on anything smaller than a battleship? F-U, CCP, seriously. Do you ever catch a dumb idea before you implement it?
-Not being able to shoot empty ships without a CONCORDOKKEN is highly idiotic.


(...Did I scare you that bad, brosef? What, you can't spare $100mil out of that $700bil for an extra Tornado? ...Next time, try to remember how many people in Eve hate you and not take such a long dump while logged in. Great for a laugh though!)

Jesus christ, you are stupid and there are so many holes in your story that it isn't even funny. An alpha Tornado only hits for about 11k damage with maxed(Or close to max) skills and that's with T2 Arties. You can't shoot -10 capsules? That's an idiotic assumption on your part and you really should learn the game mechanics before you ***** about them. You can't shoot empty ships, no, but you can take them out from under the person's nose if they are just sitting next to them in a pod. I understand all of this requires the mental capacity of someone who has more than a double digit I.Q. and I know that is asking a lot of you carebears but maybe you should learn game mechanics before bitching.


P.S. No, I don't do the whole suicide ganking thing or sniping undocks/gates because it is simply boring but that doesn't mean that you should be rewarded for being inattentive, lazy morons who have no idea how this PvP game works.

P.P.S. If you can't figure out how to tank a hauler enough so that it doesn't get one volleyed by a Tornado when only carrying a large tower, you should head back to WoW.
Bucketfor Yourtears
Doomheim
#133 - 2012-08-13 17:22:11 UTC
Xinivrae wrote:
I'm pretty sure I can take a stab at what happened to you today...


Like this guy needs more knives pointed at him
Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#134 - 2012-08-13 17:25:02 UTC
Nice Necro.
Mutant Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-08-13 17:28:50 UTC
Quaaid wrote:
Nice Necro.

Thread isn't even a month old, nice try though. Lol
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#136 - 2012-08-13 17:31:52 UTC
Mutant Caldari wrote:


P.S. No, I don't do the whole suicide ganking thing or sniping undocks/gates because it is simply boring but that doesn't mean that you should be rewarded for being inattentive, lazy morons who have no idea how this PvP game works.

P.P.S. If you can't figure out how to tank a hauler enough so that it doesn't get one volleyed by a Tornado when only carrying a large tower, you should head back to WoW.


P.P.P.S. Funny ****...
Kunming
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2012-08-13 17:35:27 UTC
Rain King wrote:
I wouldn't say that they've killed PvP, but they have made ganking retardedly easy. So easy that even HE can do it. But hey, that's where the game is headed, so whatever.


hey tio is bad arse man, he'll blow ur face off Lol
Mag's
Azn Empire
#138 - 2012-08-13 17:48:06 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Lucy Ferrr wrote:

Edit: LOL, Just so everyone else can enjoy this as much as me: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16950731
You are so good at Hulkaggeddon you don't even need to be in your Hulks to get them blown up. Well done!

Dat Fit. Lol
I did say, 'oh dear' when I saw it. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#139 - 2012-08-13 17:54:20 UTC
Right so I tried this on a MOA to see if it worked (don't blame me for poor target choice yet).
Now the nice part is my alpha was 10k with phased plasma L
This resulted in the Moas shield being stripped and a bit of armor damage.
Now I mad the mistake 1 of engaging my can bait to close to a station so redocks were possible.
My second mistake was engaging an intelligent opponent than myself.
So he redocks and returns in an autocane.
Now I was smart and was aligned to a safespot for this.
Unfortunately I stayed aligned and was 12 kms to close.
An then along comes the scramming.
So I did not break the shield and I died.
So what I learned is that one, t3 bcs are easily killed if engaged by anything not alphable.
Two safespots should be off grid.
Three people will complain about about the damnedest things rather than learning that there are other play styles.
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
#140 - 2012-08-13 18:00:14 UTC
To the op, don't undock in lowsec if people are in local and you don't have an undocking bookmark setup. You're simply asking, no begging to die if you don't prepare or pay attention.