Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Of course, I comprehend players don’t fight if they don’t think they *can* win. I will fight some battles where I think the chances are against me but if I don’t think there is *any* way I can win then I won’t fight.

Now to answer your questions: Lets say you are in a plex and I don’t fight you. Well maybe I need to get a ship for that plex and then I will come back and fight you. Then we both get to fight in this war and to the victor goes the spoils.

But let’s say I won’t fight you in that plex in any ship because “I don’t think I can win.” Well I am pretty much conceding that you are better than me at pvp aren’t I?

Now maybe I am new to eve so that is why I don’t think I can win. So maybe someone else in my militia thinks they can win against you. Well they are notified where you are as well and therefore you will get your fight from them.


Now if everyone in my militia feels they cannot win against you, then you will count down every timer, receive the lp for doing that, and we will lose the war. Why will we lose the war? Because you are better at pvp. This is how it should be.

People thought fw was going to be about pvp. This is why many people started out in fw and why many people (who didn’t know the mechanics) were impressed with Caldari. But then posts by people like ank made people realize that “winning faction war” just proved you were a bigger carebear than the other faction. And now the occupancy mechanic is all but abandoned.

Side point: CCP should consider some ideas for the timers. They may want to make it so that if you blow up an enemy ship in the plex your timer not only goes down for the time of the fight but maybe and extra 90 seconds or so. That way people will be able to do slightly more plexes in the same amount of time if there are fights involved. (yes I know they will need to consider the possibility of people killing alts in the other militia but I think that can be considered)



We just disagree about this. I view npcs as nothing but floating bags of isk waiting to be broken open. Shooting them is not rewarding at all beyond the isk.

Let’s say ccp published the names of the players who shot the most npcs in the game. Sort of “best carebear” in the game list. Would you think highly of these players? I think people on that list would be ridiculed as much as they would be honored.

Puking npcs all over plexes just deters pvp. How many times does this need to be demonstrated before people will realize it?

Dagren I don't think I understand.


How do you flip the station?

I'm positive it won't happen often enough to keep me interested for a long enough period of time. I've been there, done that. Still do it (rarely these days) due to insanity. Running people out of plexes is fun. Sitting on plex button waiting for people to come in and fight is just too boring to do long term.

Let me know when your name appears on the following link:
http://api.eve-online.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx

Then maybe your opinion on when, why, and how often people will fight in plexes will hold some weight.

You couldn’t possibly have done it. CCP never implemented a notification system that tells the other militia you are there taking a plex. You are assuming a change in mechanics will have no effect on players behavior.

When you sit in a plex now there is a good chance most of the enemy militia doesn’t even know you are there. I find it unlikely they all think you are such a fearsome pvper that no one will dare enter a plex you are in.

Plus they may think you do not want to be found and so you will run if they go in. (after all under the current system, without notifications, hide and seek plexing is a very effective way to plex.)




I’m not sure what this is. It’s not coming in clear on my browser.

From what I can tell it looks like a web site that calculates among other things, how often you play and how many plexes people take. When I enter plexes I tend to not even bother taking them. I tend to move away from the rats so that I don’t waste my tank and have to warp away if a player comes in. So I’m not sure I will be making your list unless ccp makes occupancy plexing something that involves pvp instead of pve.

Moreover, I haven’t been playing eve all that much lately because there are very few mechanics that bring about frequent quality small scale pvp.

If these lists are supposed to have some other meaning then you will have to spell it out for me because I am missing it.

If you only want to hear from people like yourself who think fw is fine, and a “free war dec” is the best we can hope for, then of course you won’t think anything is wrong. Have fun shooting red crosses.

F'ing forum eating long winded posts.

1. My post was harsh, but point remains.
2. As stated many times before. You can notify, but after getting blueballed so many times, people will quit coming. This conclusion is based on experience. (see also Bad Messenger's comment on how to use proposed mechanics)
3. From your post it seems that you just want fights in plexes and care nothing for occupancy - otherwise you'd close the plexes. You're in it for the same reasons 95% of everybody in FW now - PVP! Higher goals... meh! Why would you close them in the future if you don't now?

I meant instead of shooting the bunker, you shoot the station. Then the station changes to the other faction. This could really suck if you had stuff in the station that you can no longer get to. So by flipable i meant when system changes occupancy the station does as well. If it only allowed militia pilots to dock in it gives incentives not to loose station since you can't even use neutral alts to get stuff out.

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A:Reworking of Faction Complex Beacons:

-Small plexes can now accept not only t1 frigs and destroyers but t2 as well, it makes little sense that faction frigs can enter one but t2 cant, simple change for more fun all around similar to the way sisi frig beacon rules were changed.
-Capping plex gives gives fixed ammount of Loyalty Points based on size of it. LP's are spread between all the players that capture it.
-Rework of agro mechanics of plex rats, so that capping large plex isnt as simple as having one speedy frig kiteing while other player caps the plex. That way both smaller and larger ships will be useful for there own size of plex and players would actually need to engage rats in order to get plex.

Reason for change: this gives incentive for players to actually bother with plex capping and system flopping, reward for whole day of plexing still wont be anywhere near what player can gain from doing missions but at least there is push to pvp all over low sec and not just in few active systems. Numbers are optional and can be tweaked but still there should be some kind of reward for it. Example player can gain 1 billion isk from full day of farming FW missions or 15-20k LP's from doing the same with plex pvp.



B: Systems Owned and Player Rank

-Possible rework of militia ranks so that they are gained through pvp rather then pve, that way focus is pushed towards pvp and militia is more aligned with its true purpose rather then it being ISK farming ground for non pvp players.
-Number of systems gives monthly reward of LP's based on ones militia rank. The more systems that faction owns and higher the rank of character the better the reward. Since there are around 100 systems (101 is it?) that can be split between 2 faction this could be done in such a way that every system owned above 50 gives +x amount of LP after each month spent in militia. Reward wouldn't be to great but it would push players to pvp, grind that max rank and fight for each system since on end of the day that is free LP's.
-Rats on gates belong to militia that owns the system, small change that adds a bit realism to the game.

Reason for change: This pushes players more towards engaging in militia type pvp rather then random lets blow what ever comes our way (pirating) type of play that is predominant now and contradictory to original idea of faction warfare . With actual reason to bother flopping the system players now gain palpable rewards, but due to new militia ranking based on pvp one wont gain it just by passively putting "noob" character into militia but one will have to actually participate if one is to gain his monthly "salary".



C: Killing Opposing Militia Ships and Reward


-This now gives a better LP reward, I know that this mechanic is in some form in the game but if I go with my frigate and manage to get 5 solo kills that shouldn't give me pathetic 10 LP's or what ever it is, obviously there was effort in that which is harder to pull off then killing NPC rats in mission so some kind of palpable reward should be in place. Again nothing like missions but still few hundred for such achievement wouldn't hurt.
-This LP gain works on similar system as points on http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/.
Meaning that ship size of both partys is taken into consideration as well as number of targets on the kill, obviously blobbing and solo pvp are not same thing. NPC damage on kill shouldn't count as extra ship.

EDIT: Sorry this became a longer thread than expected, but an idea bug hit me, and I don't think it sounds too unreasonable. So, please excuse the TL;DR.

If it is a station instead of a button/timer, I think it'd be a hell of a lot more realistic to have a full on station that can be flipped. How do you flip the station...?

Well, do it like when you take a POS down.

The station can have Sentry Guns and Missile Turrets, Shields, etc... This means a militia actually has to send REAL resources to take down that station, just like taking down a POS.

But, instead of going into Reinforced mode, the station then goes into rebuild mode. A state of "neutrality", where the system belongs to no faction.

So, if Gallente "flipped" a Caldari Capture Station (nice name eh??? =D), they had to deplete all it's shields, put all its turrets out of commission, and take it into .0001 of structure.

Depending on how realistic you want the system capping to be:
1. The station, when it hits that .0001 of structure, will start to rebuild its own structure, armor, shields, turrets come out of their incapacitated state etc...
OR
2. The enemy has to do the rebuild themselves. The enemy has to bring in the hull reppers, the armor and shield reps, etc. Personally I like that idea better, because it requires resources, just like in real life. It's not just that everyone is PvP oriented, now a remote hull repper would be useful, remote armor repping and shield boosting would be a necessity, but you also need the resources to protect the logistics side of things.

Not only does this prevent an "immediate" flip, it makes it laborious process that actually means something and can't just be completed right after downtime.

Maybe a benefit of owning more systems could be reduced LP/Tag requirement for LP store goodies or better PvE (such as spawning sanctums, higher end DED complexes). Again, it is about incentive... "WHY ARE WE DOING ALL THIS?"

As far as a balancing act, not to throw things into a major imbalance of power, would be for the empire that is losing the war to have NPC support (like when Caldari militia enters Gallente Highsec), such as spawning militia NPC instead of pirates at gates and stations, station guns actually fire on the enemy if they're in enemy territory,the enemy can't park ships or even enter the enemy stations, etc etc.

This way, if the balance of power is purely based on the fact that time-zones don't match up, or one militia has 4000 players and the other only 2000, the disadvantaged faction isn't left completely in the dust and just over-run by the superior force. Of course this would have to be done on a scale of sorts, maybe base it on the number of systems an empire owns. If Minmatar own all 12 of their original systems there's only active station guns. If Minmatar drop to 8 systems, NPC Militia cruiser spawns start happening. If they drop to 4 systems, then NPC militia BS/BC/Cruiser spawn. If they drop to 3, then no enemy of the Minmatar can enter the stations at all, even if in a Pod. (Note that the numbers of systems were arbitrary.)

Something like this would help keep things balanced, but can also be rewarding for the enemy force as the NPC militia could have bounties/rewards attached to them such as ISK/LP/Tags/special drops. Again.... there's that concept of INCENTIVE.

Hell, you could have prices in High Sec market hubs be affected by how many systems that faction owns. If you own a lot of systems, then the price of items drops, if you don't have a lot of systems, the prices are higher due to the risks involved in getting everything to that hub through enemy territory. This would also then be an incentive for high sec carebears to take interest in what is happening in the militia. To either join the cause or support it in some way, because they too benefit from having a successful empire. This means you could REALLY have smugglers taking stuff from a successful faction's market hub, trying to run equipment/ships/materials and selling it for cheap (but much higher than what he bought them for on the cheaper market) in the factions market hub that is doing poorly.

I don't think this would be too hard to implement, the basics are really in place already. Stations spawn for missions all the time, NPC's spawn and can be assigned special loots,etc... It's just up to CCP to really sit down and put the incentive into being in the militia.

How so? You've got enemy militia buzzing about trying to prevent the system flip... how can THAT be boring? I guess I don't see how it's boring. Time consuming sure... but they can change how long it'd take to take out shields, armor and structure. It doesn't have to take long to take down... it could just take a while to bring it back up.

It's all about incentive... currently, there is NONE other than FW missions and making some isk.

That could be a decent staging place for fleets where others wouldn't be able to tell how many you have docked there.