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Free or Not, Mining Minerals

Author
Kyra Felann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-08-12 21:21:35 UTC
The minerals themselves are "free" if you mine them. Where this breaks down is when someone makes something with them and considers that product "free" also.

You can get into a discussion about what is free or not, but this is a game and people play it for fun. If you enjoy mining, by all means mine, but treat mining and manufacturing as two completely different activities. Manufacturing materials are never "free" because you always have to take into account their value on the market.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#42 - 2012-08-12 22:09:56 UTC
If you think you minerals are free, who am I to care. Hopefully I am living in you little region of space so I can get interesting priced items. Or do you need to tell yourself your profit margins bigger?

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Triumvirate.
#43 - 2012-08-13 15:17:52 UTC
TANSTAAFL
Gaius Fabricius
3M Sinq Laison
#44 - 2012-08-13 15:28:55 UTC
Thankfully I read the forums and some guides (ISK the ultimate guide and the resource pages)
This made me roll a trader instead of a miner, and today I am glad, since I would never be able to have the bankroll I have right now, with a t1 mining frigate.
WAXER Hinken
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-08-13 16:01:54 UTC
Gaius Fabricius wrote:
Thankfully I read the forums and some guides (ISK the ultimate guide and the resource pages)
This made me roll a trader instead of a miner, and today I am glad, since I would never be able to have the bankroll I have right now, with a t1 mining frigate.

i recently broke my old miners out of storage. i did some semi afk mining with two hulks over the weekend while i was grading papers and tests. i am 280mil richer for a total of 6 to 8 hrs of two clicks every 3 minutes. also, all my papers and tests are graded. can't pvp while doing that.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#46 - 2012-08-13 16:14:14 UTC
My take on mining is almost exactly the opposite of "free". I understand what the OP is trying to say, but his logic is flawed imo.

First, by undocking, warping to a belt, engaging your miners, you have already committed to 'an isk making venture'.
Mining is not risk free, nor is it a 100% afk activity. It is also no harder than a typical mission. Mouse clicks and keyboard commands, nothing more. Every isk making venture has an isk/hour value.

So when I undock and fly to an isk making venture, I want that venture to be a high value venture. If mining pays less than a lvl 4 mission, then I can truly say those minerals actually lost me isk. Not free at all.

Every thing in eve has a time cost. Whether you buy it, build it, mine it, shoot it, etc. I know miners who have spent the last 4 years making 'free minerals'. It just drives me crazy sometimes...

That said:
I also think everyone should be able to play their own game. If a guy wants to mine for his relaxation and entertainment, it's his computer, his home, his subscription. He should play however he wants.
Shingyoku
Griffin Support Services
Ad-Astra
#47 - 2012-08-13 16:14:28 UTC
I call minerals mined isk neutral myself since I do production. What this means is they have value but I'm not using isk to buy those and using it elsewhere IE, highsec mining while I work and buying minerals from Nullsec with the isk on hand.
Gaius Fabricius
3M Sinq Laison
#48 - 2012-08-13 16:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaius Fabricius
WAXER Hinken wrote:
Gaius Fabricius wrote:
Thankfully I read the forums and some guides (ISK the ultimate guide and the resource pages)
This made me roll a trader instead of a miner, and today I am glad, since I would never be able to have the bankroll I have right now, with a t1 mining frigate.

i recently broke my old miners out of storage. i did some semi afk mining with two hulks over the weekend while i was grading papers and tests. i am 280mil richer for a total of 6 to 8 hrs of two clicks every 3 minutes. also, all my papers and tests are graded. can't pvp while doing that.


Fair enough, however I am nowhere near close to mining in anything that will yield that.
I am 2 weeks into this game, and I have amassed (thanks to the helpful players and guides here) around 300M ISK.
I could never have made that mining.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#49 - 2012-08-13 16:41:12 UTC
Gaius Fabricius wrote:
WAXER Hinken wrote:
Gaius Fabricius wrote:
Thankfully I read the forums and some guides (ISK the ultimate guide and the resource pages)
This made me roll a trader instead of a miner, and today I am glad, since I would never be able to have the bankroll I have right now, with a t1 mining frigate.

i recently broke my old miners out of storage. i did some semi afk mining with two hulks over the weekend while i was grading papers and tests. i am 280mil richer for a total of 6 to 8 hrs of two clicks every 3 minutes. also, all my papers and tests are graded. can't pvp while doing that.


Fair enough, however I am nowhere near close to mining in anything that will yield that.
I am 2 weeks into this game, and I have amassed (thanks to the helpful players and guides here) around 300M ISK.
I could never have made that mining.


probably not ... but EvE is a sandbox and you can do whatever you want :)

though, you didn't "roll a trader". Given enough :effort: I can make a decent trader (note: I'm primarily an Industrialist) ... don't get stuck in the thinking that comes from other games (this is my miner, this is my PvPer, that's my healer ...)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

WAXER Hinken
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-08-13 16:43:32 UTC
Gaius Fabricius wrote:
WAXER Hinken wrote:
Gaius Fabricius wrote:
Thankfully I read the forums and some guides (ISK the ultimate guide and the resource pages)
This made me roll a trader instead of a miner, and today I am glad, since I would never be able to have the bankroll I have right now, with a t1 mining frigate.

i recently broke my old miners out of storage. i did some semi afk mining with two hulks over the weekend while i was grading papers and tests. i am 280mil richer for a total of 6 to 8 hrs of two clicks every 3 minutes. also, all my papers and tests are graded. can't pvp while doing that.


Fair enough, however I am nowhere near close to mining in anything that will yield that.
I am 2 weeks into this game, and I have amassed (thanks to the helpful players and guides here) around 300M ISK.
I could never have made that mining.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you look into the training skills for retriever. you can get into one in less than a week. if you're going to be trading anyway, that is, not going to be using the character actively for pvp or such, then why not trade AND mine?
Gaius Fabricius
3M Sinq Laison
#51 - 2012-08-13 17:40:40 UTC
Good advise both of you, thanks :)

I can see I still have more to learn.
Mining while managing orders, hadn't thought of that.

I also guess I am used to other mmo's where classes and such are the standard.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#52 - 2012-08-13 17:44:19 UTC
WAXER Hinken wrote:
... retriever. you can get into one in less than a week....


o_O they've knocked it down THAT far now??

man, when I started it was 1+ months...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#53 - 2012-08-13 18:08:38 UTC

I have to agree that you always have to look at the opportunity cost so the minerals are not free. Though I would just say you are mining ore, which are refined into minerals... not mining minerals.


The only thing that might be as close to free as possible though, given the very short amount of time, is looking at my bio and playing my isk doubling game. Of course, many will skim through and it will actually cost them quite a bit. But you are different- you are smart and will follow the rules and win big so that you can double, triple or 5x your isk- which again is probably the only "free" isk in this game.

But sitting around shooting rocks for hours at time, no that is not free in any way. Especially when you get ganked and lose your mining vessel.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

WAXER Hinken
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-08-13 18:48:52 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:

I have to agree that you always have to look at the opportunity cost so the minerals are not free. Though I would just say you are mining ore, which are refined into minerals... not mining minerals.


The only thing that might be as close to free as possible though, given the very short amount of time, is looking at my bio and playing my isk doubling game. Of course, many will skim through and it will actually cost them quite a bit. But you are different- you are smart and will follow the rules and win big so that you can double, triple or 5x your isk- which again is probably the only "free" isk in this game.

But sitting around shooting rocks for hours at time, no that is not free in any way. Especially when you get ganked and lose your mining vessel.

Of all the activities in EVE, scamming has the absolute highest opportunity cost, with one exception--getting scammed.

btw if you'd like to prove that your business model is real, feel free to post your full api so we can take a look at your wallet.

Gaius Fabricius
3M Sinq Laison
#55 - 2012-08-13 19:47:23 UTC
WAXER Hinken wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

I have to agree that you always have to look at the opportunity cost so the minerals are not free. Though I would just say you are mining ore, which are refined into minerals... not mining minerals.


The only thing that might be as close to free as possible though, given the very short amount of time, is looking at my bio and playing my isk doubling game. Of course, many will skim through and it will actually cost them quite a bit. But you are different- you are smart and will follow the rules and win big so that you can double, triple or 5x your isk- which again is probably the only "free" isk in this game.

But sitting around shooting rocks for hours at time, no that is not free in any way. Especially when you get ganked and lose your mining vessel.

Of all the activities in EVE, scamming has the absolute highest opportunity cost, with one exception--getting scammed.

btw if you'd like to prove that your business model is real, feel free to post your full api so we can take a look at your wallet.



This "person" has been spamming all the sub-forums. and in every post, "it" is referring to its scam!
Did not think the forum mods allowed this.
Guess even EVE's forum policy is stuffed some dark lonely place!
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-08-13 22:53:03 UTC
I like to buy up bulk frigates below cost, shift them a few systems, and sell them at twice the price
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