Warfare & Tactics

This post. It fixes FW. Someone tell CCP.

/edit
That's because we didn't. We ran plexes, the system got vulnerable, then we flipped it.

You guys started with those horrible mechanics. (Although the same tactics were used on the Caldari/Gallente front before the Amarr did it.)

This will not fix FW alone, but its a step in the right direction.

While it would be better if people had to be at the keyboard to make 200m/hr per alt and requiring those alts to actually fit guns, it still doesn't seem ideal. Still better than the status quo.

It would be quite funny to troll the opposing militia by keeping all systems vulnerable so they can't earn any LP. Although I guess you'd just seed defensive plexing alts soon enough.

Re: Cearain's posts yeah to be honest it seems like there are loads of very difficult fixes but why not just remove LP from plexes?

It seems none of this was really thought through, pre patch and I think its going to be too much effort to make plexing about PVP again, so why not just remove it?

Keep LP for kills, keep LP for system flips, just remove it from plexes. Suddenly people are interested in PVP again rather than making alts in whichever militia is most profitable at the time regardless of current alignment.

Side note yesterday I went hunting amarr plexers in a condor. I found a few that ran away (at keyboard) the only ones I successfully tackled turned out to be friendly alts that I had to let go, I can't blame them as its good ISK, it just seems a very broken system.

TL;DR remove LP from plexes and suddenly all the difficult work arounds aren't needed anymore.

there should be some kind of reward to waste your time waiting x minutes at a flag. I really think those three items would already fix a lot of the current problems - removing LP payouts altogether wouldn't be needed.

it suddenly makes things more fun:
- defender simply hunt wts down in plexes and have no longer the requirement to waste the time to undo the progress in the plex
- motivates plexer to hold the line and fight, rather than run away if something is on dscan (since the plex is recovering)
- solo pve frigs will no longer be able to finish majors, this will encourage fleets, pvp fittings and discourage AFK plexing
- farming vulnerable systems is no longer possible -> enforces offensive playstyles.. you know war and stuff
- ..


i really supported the strategy of the amarr militia to exploit the fact that defensive plexing is basically the most boring feature eve currently provides, by stacking vulnerable systems knowing that no minmatar will defend them once they are vulnerable.

But not to farm the crap out of it, i rather hoped that more threads would spawn stating that FW is currently broken (in the large scale), its basically farmed like incursions.

Thats how all of the new blood in Amarr FW felt the first 6 weeks we joined. Then we stopped complaining about being poor, got over it, and became rich.

I would like to welcome the Minmatar Militia to FW.

Now that some balance has returned you will see how it should be.

No regular T5. No Warzone domination.

And yes - Vulnerable systems everywhere.

I will even send a gunless speedtanking alt your way just to make the experience authentic.


OP - did you used to play SupCom2? or just a similar name to someone there??

My view on this is that if ccp wants hundreds of thousands of subscribers to their game and make millions every month they may have to do some hard work. I say this not because I feel entitled due to my subscription, (lol) but because I want ccp to aim high and continue to prove they can make the best game in the world.

That said I don't think the fixes are that hard. Many have been plexing for pvp for a few years now and they know what ccp needs to do. It has been suggested since faction war came out. Its just a matter of ccp deciding they will do it.

Give us a notification of when and where plexes are entered and afk farming will no longer be a problem. They can also have the counters start to count backwards if an enemy is on grid at warp out. This alone will fix fw plexing and make it pvp at least in the medium and minor plexes.

Killing all rats is an easy solution for majors. A more indepth solution was proposed in the features and ideas section.

The major plexes will also need to have the npcs toned down. I know that seems odd for people who are used to tanking them in a t1 frigate or af. But I think once people actually have to start running them in bigger ships with bigger sig radiuses they will realize they block pvp. At least if you fly for amarr you will. I tried running a major in a dual asb pvp cyclone and I was going through so many cap boosters I would not want to fight even an enemy af in that plex.


As for removing lp from plexing. I don't think that is the right direction. Its sort of giving up on faction war plexing. Make plexing a pvp mechanic by doing the things players have been asking for since fw came out. Then those lp will not be any sort of windfall. For most players it will barely cover their losses and be far less profitable than high sec activities. For good pvpers though it will be a decent income. This will make fw the pvp mecca it always should have been.

I think a solution to that problem, Cearain, would be to make plexes a bit more like DED sites.

The npcs could be grouped so that full aggro can be avoided. After they are all dead you could make it so that there are no or limited respawns. Once the npcs are dead the flag can be captured without interference and the plex is good for pvp.

It really shouldn't take more that half an hour around a table for CCP to thrash out a system of plexes that works.

Imo, it is complete nonsense, that fresh alts in t1 frigs can easily complete all plexes without even activating guns - and make MASSIVE profit from them. It is also nonsense that l4 fw missions can be blitzed by basically uncatchable ship (in lowsec) avoiding 99% of any pvp.

I´m perfectly ok with dedicated group of plexers/missioners making billions of isk in militia - but in no way they should be able to do it with few days old alts, avoid pvp completely or minimize risk so much, that for anyone it is just a waste of time to chase their pve ships.

Notification on plexes? Sorry cearain, but do you really want to waste your time by chasing around pve ships worth maybe 1m isk that will most likely warp away when you enter the plex anyway? Ok, its not a bad idea, but the core mechanics must be changed! You want to make billions in fw? Then take a character with proper skills, get properly fitted ship/s (for a size of the plex), make a gang and take the risk of losing it in all pvp.

Well I'm all for some income to keep us going (and lets face it none of us really want to be space-poor) but being able to replace multiple faction cruisers from a major seems a little excessive, not perhaps if they were always run in gangs and involved a fair amount of PVP, but under the current system you can cover a months losses in just a couple of hours unless you fly silly.

Its a very tricky balance to get right, too much reward and we have the hordes of plexing alts (status quo) too little and people spend a lot of time making ISK rather than PVPing. I'd prefer to err towards the later end of the scale because at the end of the day you can always fly cheap

I think this would change faction war plexing much more than you may realize.


BTW I think the intel should go to both sides friendly and enemy.


Consider this:

Amarr Minmatar ahs 70 systems. Lets say right now there are 30 plexes being run. For the sake of argument lets say they are divided equally between the 4 types of plexes and lets say its an even split between both sides. So right off the bat you will have about 3-4 enemy plexers in a plex appropriate for your ship. So you would likely be able to get to that plex in about 7 jumps. Smaller plexes take faster aligning and warping ships so even if it is minor with a 10 minute timer you could still make it in plenty of time. Bigger plexes offer even more time.

But lets say no enemy plexes are being run toward you in your ship. So for example you and a friend are in thrashers and there is no minor around. You could reship. But also its likely that perhaps one of your own miliitia might be in a medium in a t1 cruiser when an enemy comes in in a faction cruiser. One jump out. Bingo, you guys have your fight. But of course that enemy may have some friends coming too etc..

Fights like that have always been my favorite fights. People just coming along and saying yeah Ill join in on that. The carnage is spread out from the accel gate throughout the plex.

Or perhaps you are in a bc and you see 5 destroyers entered one of your major plexes. The possibilities are endless as long as we know what is where.

But lets say neither applys. No enemies running minors and no one near you that could use your help in a fight. Then you could reship. But you could also just start running your own plex and thereby alert the entire other militia where you are and that you are ready to fight.

As far as reshipping the station lockouts haven't helped. But they are not the end of the world. We can still reship in outside fw places - even in enemy high sec. By placing plexing ships throughout these areas there would always be fights constanatly.

In fact i think due to the lock out rule people will find it is best not to base in fw space at all. Doing that just saddles you with the extra commitment to d-plex your space. Ideally the bases would be on the various boarders of fw space.

I think that this mechanic would lead to militias covering certain zones in the front. Probably 7-10 zones. So one zone might be the systems a few jumps from a base in amo. Another zone might be the systems a feww jumps from a base in akkio. Another zone might be systems a few jumps from a base in egg etc. Plexers in each of these zones would be on the same teamspeak channel and communicating what they need to hold their zone. If there is no action they could check another teamspeak channel to see if militia covering other zones needed help.

If what I say makes any sense then its easy to see how this would revolutionize the plexing mechanics and turn it into a pvp grinder like eve has never seen. You will need all those lp because you will be losing ships fast.

But the beauty is this would not ruin any of the existing pvp. If people still wanted to be in the large fleet fights in Kourmonen they could still do that. They would still exist. Plexing would just be another pvp option for people who like frequent solo or small gang pvp. The side that was better at that would get rewarded.