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Suggest ship for alt to assist in Lvl 4 missions

Author
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-08-12 15:24:51 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Train your main into a Raven or Nighthawk or Tengu or CNR or CNScorp or Rattlesnake. Train your second account into a Noctis. Smile


I would say no because 80% of the time it is going to be sitting there doing nothing.


Agreed. You need at least two ships killing stuff, probably three with lower skills, to keep a noctis fully occupied if you know can multi-task well.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#22 - 2012-08-12 20:17:39 UTC
You mentioned you had low skills, I will assume your alt may also. Why not just use 2 drakes till you get better skills. Getting into a T2 tank drake with T1 meta 4 launchers is very quick. also having 2 similar easy mode drakes is a good way to learn to dual box if you new to it.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-08-12 21:02:20 UTC
For support I don't think there's anything quite like a Rattlesnake.

Highs:
2x Drone Link Augmentor
4x Cruise Missile Launcher II's (or salvagers if your main is a Marauder)

Mids:
3x LSE II's
2x Invuln II's
100 mn Afterburner II

Lows:
4x Shield Power Relay II's
2x Drone Damage Augmentors

Rigs:
3x Large Core Defense Field Purgers

Stats:
90 KM Range
715 DPS Passive Omnitank
659 DPS Drones only (Ogre II's)
Cruise Launchers pushing DPS to 795

Assign Drones + Keep Range and relax.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-08-12 23:11:23 UTC
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:
For support I don't think there's anything quite like a Rattlesnake.

Highs:
2x Drone Link Augmentor
4x Cruise Missile Launcher II's (or salvagers if your main is a Marauder)

Mids:
3x LSE II's
2x Invuln II's
100 mn Afterburner II

Lows:
4x Shield Power Relay II's
2x Drone Damage Augmentors

Rigs:
3x Large Core Defense Field Purgers

Stats:
90 KM Range
715 DPS Passive Omnitank
659 DPS Drones only (Ogre II's)
Cruise Launchers pushing DPS to 795

Assign Drones + Keep Range and relax.


That might be a good fit for doing missions by itself, but it's a horrible fit for a DPS support ship, and if the OP is flying a drake to tank the missions any other ship in there had best be either a noctis or a DPS support ship. There aren't any drone navigation computers to augment the slow speed of Ogre IIs, there aren't any omnidirectional tracking links to help them hit frigates, destroyers, and (possibly) cruisers better, 715 DPS tank is way over-tanked for a DPS support ship, and unless you're in a mission that consists almost entirely of battleships heavy launchers work better than cruise launchers despite only having 60% or so of the missile velocity purely by being able to hit smaller ships better and larger ships about the same with T2 damage ammo.

For a long-range DPS support ship a far better build, for me at least, would be:
[Rattlesnake, Long-Range Fire Support]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I


Garde II x5
Warden II x5

With Warden IIs t pushes out 643 rDPS at 80km, the range of the heavy launchers, and with a sensor boster could hit 547 rDPS at 130km to make missions like Worlds Collide L4 a little faster at the start. With Garde IIs it hits 826 rDPS at 52km. Bouncer IIs will, on those rare merc., rogue drone, or Angel missions where you have rats far enough out to warrant it, push 735 rDPS at 80km (100km optimal), and Curator II sentries will push out 689 rDPS at 80km. Garde IIs are top dog in close, but if you're doing Sansha/Blood Raider missions it might be worth it to have a pack of Curators on hand to smack them at ranges over 60km.

An MWD is a better choice than an AB simply because you're faster to catch up or faster to get to the gate and drop drones. With only two hardeners the cap regeneration should be more than sufficient so long as you don't overuse the MWD. Two invulnerability fields and the extenderes and rigs plus the Rattlesnake's ship bonuses is enough to get a 267 "omni" DPS tank while managing 194 DPS tank against straight up EM damage. Two LSE2s are enough for it to eke out upwards of 19.2k EHP as well, and if you're sitting around long enough for that much HP to get chewed through a third extender isn't going to help much. The omni links not only extend the range of sentry drones, which are far better for fire support roles than mobile drones, but it lets your mobile drones more easily take out scrambling/webbing frigates, especially the T2 sort that might have aggro'd on said rattlesnake and be trying to prevent it from leaving.

As I said, your build is probably fine for running missions solo, but not for fire support. If the OP were packing a pair of rattlesnakes into the same mission and not caring about how quickly they get done because he/she/it is watching movies or reading books then I'd probably endorse the build for both rattlesnakes, or at least a slight modification involing swapping an LSE2 or the AB for an Omni link and the invunlerability fields for rat-specific hardeners.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-08-13 03:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
Shereza wrote:
*snip*


All true, and there was a Tracking Link in there I just forgot to put it in by mistake. (6 mids put in 7th missing)

Where our oppinions differ though is that I'd use the Rattlesnake as the maintank, even though it's the alt. I've tried controlling 2 characters at the same time in the past and while it's not exactly "hard" with two simultanious characters it can get annoying. The Rattlesnake has the potential to bring a cheap and extremely potent tank, while the drones can be put on a no-stress assist mode on your main. In many if not most cases this allows you to aggro the whole room, launch drones and not worry too much about it afterwards.
BigCynoBoom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-08-13 05:02:20 UTC
I would recommend a Dominix as a support ship. Drop sentry's and assist them to your drake which you can use to web them. Decent sentry damage and a tank for the dominix does not take that long to train. Some groups require long range to target and pull so a few rails can help there.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-08-13 06:14:20 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Train your main into a Raven or Nighthawk or Tengu or CNR or CNScorp or Rattlesnake. Train your second account into a Noctis. Smile


I would say no because 80% of the time it is going to be sitting there doing nothing. the t3 bcs would probably be the fastest way to get some good fire support.


Same experience here. I initially trained my alt for Noctis, because it was done fast. However, I realized that half the time, she's sitting about doing nothing and the salvage simply didn't cover the money I could have gotten, had the account been more active.

Since I switched from battleships (CNR) almost completely to cruisers (Tengu), I wanted something that would keep up with the little Speedy and provided heavy damage support mainly against large ships. T3 BCs (specifically, the Oracle) were the obvious choice. Do note that I didn't want to spend too much time training, as that alt is primarily ment to be a trader/hauler and as such focuses mostly on industrial skills.
Cu3ball
Edge of Darkness
#28 - 2012-08-13 17:12:21 UTC
An Ishtar with T2 sentries, drop them and put on assist to your main. You instantly add 500+ dps to what ever you are shooting at in your Drake and dont have any extra "piloting" in the 2nd ship. And you dont have to worry about them pulling aggro and getting shot at. Another option is put a decent tank on the Ishtar and have both jump in and start shooting different groups of rats. Both way work good. I like the Ishtar instead of a BS becuase of how much faster it is. The only problem with Sentries is you have to stay around them until you pick them up. So if you are 50k from the next gate, once the pocket is clear you still have 50K to go.

I used a Tengu and Ishtar combo for lvl 4's for a long time and it works really well. Now I am using a proteus instead of the ishtar.

Just my 2 isk, hope it helps.
Ginger Barbarella
#29 - 2012-08-13 17:24:41 UTC
tl;dr

Tengu & SNI.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-08-13 21:52:05 UTC
A tier 3 BC is going to give the best bang for the buck. I like the Talos since it has drones, they along with the ones from your Drake will do a number on frigs and cruisers. This frees up your ships to go after the bigger targets. Another Drake is also an option, you can then train into dual Tengu's easily enough.
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-08-13 23:06:01 UTC
BigCynoBoom wrote:
I would recommend a Dominix as a support ship. Drop sentry's and assist them to your drake which you can use to web them. Decent sentry damage and a tank for the dominix does not take that long to train. Some groups require long range to target and pull so a few rails can help there.


This.

The Domi is moderate to high tank, moderate to high insta DPS with guns and sentries, low work load ( it can just sit there cap stable), is cheap to buy and fit and is a pretty ease train. Gal BS 4, Large hybrids 4, sentries and drone support skils. It's all win. You can even get selectable damage to a degree with the drones and the versitility of them. You can even salvage with it. As a support ship the Domi still remains a top performer.
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#32 - 2012-08-13 23:40:26 UTC
Amazed at how poorly people read..

Ucankurbaga wrote:


So I want to train my alt to support with dps in missions. I currently have some gallente ships training but the alt is fairly new and low on sp. What ship you suggest to train for my alt to help dps in lvl 4 missions? I would appreciate if it is one that doesn't take ages to train.

Thanks.


While the suggestions are all good... they all going to take time..
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-08-14 01:44:25 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
Amazed at how poorly people read..

Ucankurbaga wrote:


So I want to train my alt to support with dps in missions. I currently have some gallente ships training but the alt is fairly new and low on sp. What ship you suggest to train for my alt to help dps in lvl 4 missions? I would appreciate if it is one that doesn't take ages to train.

Thanks.


While the suggestions are all good... they all going to take time..


Alternatives are ships like the arbitrator and vexor which can be flown in short order, gotten to ship handling 4 in short order, and have effective drone bonuses to allow for "AFK DPS support," but the fact remains that any suggestion will take time to implement. I suppose prioritization would give something like a vexor -> myrmidon (maybe) -> dominix -> rattlesnake progression curve.
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-08-14 03:41:42 UTC
Aka practically everyone reccomends a Droneboat xD
Ucankurbaga
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-08-14 08:56:44 UTC
Wow a lot of suggestions came through since I last posted. Thanks guys.

I am training gunnery skills for now. I think I will go with Naga > Rokh path since I like the idea of sitting far away and snipe comfortably while Drake goes in to tank.
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