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The new Mackinkaw, new king miner, better than a hauler, all in one, afk mining machine.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2012-08-13 00:56:54 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Some of the belts I screenshotted had over a dozen orcas yet no hulks, so much for orca support groups using hulks.
That's largely because they're not fleet mining, but rather solo-mining with boosts. Fleet-mining requires effort, co-ordination and being at the keyboard.

James 315 wrote:
Deise Koraka wrote:
All it did was make the Mack the choice of high sec solo miners. Hulks still mine more, they just need the support of a corp.

These changes made sure every type of miner had a ship that catered to their mining style of choice, that's all.
Not necessarily. You look around the highsec belts and see the extinction of the hulk in favor of the mackinaw. Check the market and note the price changes, too.
…which doesn't particularly disprove what he said. Each type of miner has a ship for his mining style. The prevalent style is solo mining, to absolutely no-one's surprise. The Hulk still caters to the fleet mining and does a fine job of it, but you won't see that by looking at the average miner.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#122 - 2012-08-13 00:57:05 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
While you paid attention and lost 1 ship, many never lost a ship and mined so AFK that they could go walk the dog, eat a snack and much more. When they lost that ship they would notice they lost 1 day worth of mining over 1 year of no gank and they carried on.

Not sure it was worth to play like a spasm low sec perma danger miner, it's not like your efforts earned 1 penny more than the lazy AFKers.

I still keep my ancient, large rigs Hulks parked in a station as souvenir. They had some massive AFK mining done on them Blink

Heh heh. The truth comes out.

One wonders if the cost of T2 cystals is comparable to the loss of the hulk, over its lifetime.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#123 - 2012-08-13 00:57:43 UTC
Why are so many of you shouting every time you say "ore," "ice," and "Orca?"

Or have those been officially backronym'ed whilst I was...errrm...on forum-holiday?

Ni.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#124 - 2012-08-13 00:59:45 UTC
Oh look, I guess my crystal ball was right....https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1703059#post1703059 price of Mack's are going up and they truly are now the King of mining.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#125 - 2012-08-13 01:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Boom
I'm going to laugh my ass off when ice has crashed to an all new low, and all the miners are bitching on the forum. Bring back hulkageddon Twisted And even I can see that the mac is the new top barge on the block.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#126 - 2012-08-13 01:06:26 UTC
Suddenly Boom wrote:
I'm going to laugh my ass off when ice has crashed to an all new low, and all the miners are bitching on the forum. Bring back hulkageddon Twisted And even I can see that the mac is the new top barge on the block.


Price of ores all around have all ready started to take a nose dive.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#127 - 2012-08-13 01:09:44 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
I'm going to laugh my ass off when ice has crashed to an all new low, and all the miners are bitching on the forum. Bring back hulkageddon Twisted And even I can see that the mac is the new top barge on the block.


Price of ores all around have all ready started to take a nose dive.


Which is good, because price double bottoms need nose dives. And then...

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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-08-13 02:46:10 UTC
Tippia has some very good points in regard to indy haulers.

However, for me, the only reason I use a hauler is to move minerals. I can fly a freighter once I have the money to not worry about losing one, so it's not really a big deal. The standard haulers on the other hand, I can't help but feel like they could use an increase in cargo capacity.

Not because of the Mack though, but because I never thought that a few thousand m3 was ever very much, it sure isn't a worthwhile amount of minerals.

But, why in the world would you use a hauler to move ore? Isn't 3000m3 of minerals more than 35k m3 of ore? Anyone that would use a Mack to move 35k worth of ore has to be somewhat ********.


I wouldn't mind seeing haulers get a boost closer to 10k m3 of cargo though.
ashley Eoner
#129 - 2012-08-13 03:12:35 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:
[quote=Peter Raptor]it is impossible to die in HS if you pay attention.
That is not even remotely true..


Last time I died to a gank was bvack in Jihad, when I was foolish enough to mine in Genisis which was goons favorite hunting ground. I treat HS just the same as I would 4CB7x or 9UY etc etc..... I use SS, an I have insta warps off every station I use. Never once been ganked since that day. When I mission I Dscan every 15 seconds on dot.

Edit, an I never EVER mission in high population systems.
It is most definitely true
Your personal experience doesn't matter. You said it was impossible to die to a gank in HS which is completely and utterly wrong. IF someone wants you dead they'll bring enough damage to alpha you if nothing else.

Now is it very likely that you'll be killed in HS if you take precautions? No it's very unlikely you'll die.. It's also very unlikely you'll die in nullsec if you take the proper precautions..



Personally I've always though that regular indies need a bit of a cargo boost or there needs to be some sort of a middle ground hauler between a cheap disposable iteron IV and an Obelisk.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2012-08-13 04:52:32 UTC
fleet-hulk with orca support <-mines the most
solo- mackinaw <- best solo because of ore hold size
want to tank? skiff.<- tanks pretty well

t1 versions are exactly the same way but about 10% worse in every way. except much weaker tanks
anyone still complaining can contract their stuff to me and I will compile their complaints.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2012-08-13 05:16:32 UTC
I just want it to remind you that every hauler that I have holds more than the Mack.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
pussnheels
Viziam
#132 - 2012-08-13 06:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
i hate to burst you bubble OP but the mack is not the king of the exhumers
the hulk still is , that is with maxed out mining skills and maxed orca support, even in icemining
the mack is indeed king if you are a casual miner and want to mine solo / afk for a while

Yes granted the mack has a better tank , but that is giving alot of miners a false sense of security
Even now a few days after the patch i see alot of macks from players who are fitted for max yield in favour of the antigank tank , sure it might help defend against the casual gank attempt but against a determined gank attack it is just as vulnerable as before

It will only be a few weeks before gankers develop new tactics , probably even faster, and all the whinning will continue when that happens
This time it will not be the gankers it will be the miners who bring this on themselves ,

CCP gave you good tankable exhumers , now use it FFS

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#133 - 2012-08-13 07:25:44 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
Yes granted the mack has a better tank , but that is giving alot of miners a false sense of security
Even now a few days after the patch i see alot of macks from players who are fitted for max yield in favour of the antigank tank , sure it might help defend against the casual gank attempt but against a determined gank attack it is just as vulnerable as before

It will only be a few weeks before gankers develop new tactics , probably even faster, and all the whinning will continue when that happens
This time it will not be the gankers it will be the miners who bring this on themselves ,

CCP gave you good tankable exhumers , now use it FFS

No.

They'll hope to get another buff by screaming about gankers as they get ganked.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#134 - 2012-08-13 07:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
I think everyone is forgetting that the bonuses that MLUs provide are applied to each laser, thus compounding the benefit of fitting one to a ship such as a covetor or a hulk.

The point still stands, if you want to maximize yields and profit then you should use a hulk. In a few cases of mining Ops I've been in even the orca is having to take a trip ever few minutes cause of the raw amount of yield they are taking in. In a case such as that it would be best to use a hulk as using a mackinaw as a "hauler that also mines" would have no use as it would be moving back and forth so much it wouldn't have any time to mine.

There's also the time spent away from the belt to do the drop off. In the time it takes for a slow barge to get itself to the station and back and get mining again you could have probably done a cycle or two more.

And like it's been mentioned, industrials are hardly out of date now. They are still very valuable for carrying anything besides ore such as minerals or finished products form a manufact job, collecting items from PI, or simply moving goods between trade hubs for the regional marketeers. And they're still used full for anyone that mines with anything besides a mack, i.e. anyone that would prefer the yield or "safety"* of the other barges

* - Put in quotes to imply added safety, not complete safeness, as you're never safe outside a station :D

The Drake is a Lie
pussnheels
Viziam
#135 - 2012-08-13 08:37:53 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
[No.

They'll hope to get another buff by screaming about gankers as they get ganked.

most likely but i am sure this is all they will get for a long time , it just amazes me that after all these months alarge number of them still go out untanked and afk mine , if they are unwilling to learn and adapt they deserve to be ganked , and that is final

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Dave stark
#136 - 2012-08-13 08:38:53 UTC
yeah, because nobody pointed this out when it was on sisi, right?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-08-13 08:47:24 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
most likely but i am sure this is all they will get for a long time , it just amazes me that after all these months alarge number of them still go out untanked and afk mine , if they are unwilling to learn and adapt they deserve to be ganked , and that is final


The consensus will change in time to "Well the mining barge buff wasn't enough, we're still losing our untanked hulks and mackinaws to destroyers!!!"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lexmana
#138 - 2012-08-13 08:53:40 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Which is good, because price double bottoms need nose dives.

lol TA.
Quote:
And then...

... it goes up or down or stays the same.
pussnheels
Viziam
#139 - 2012-08-13 09:01:23 UTC
Andski wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
most likely but i am sure this is all they will get for a long time , it just amazes me that after all these months alarge number of them still go out untanked and afk mine , if they are unwilling to learn and adapt they deserve to be ganked , and that is final


The consensus will change in time to "Well the mining barge buff wasn't enough, we're still losing our untanked hulks and mackinaws to destroyers!!!"


not often i find myself in agreement with a goon , but you are right sad but true , even tho the loss in yield isn't even that much if you go for a tank , sometimes i just don't understand them anymore, you fight a war of words for them and what they do ...bah , maybe there is a carreer as a ganker waiting for me

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Arcticblue2
Nordic Freelancers inc
#140 - 2012-08-13 09:56:31 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Best thing is that you dock your full mack in the orca that is also full to carry even more ore


Now that is not possible is it ?, I can't dock my covetor in my Orca with load, I can only dock after I dump the orebay.... that was like that also before the patch.