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Can any frigate kill an AC thrasher?
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Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-08-12 04:12:01 UTC
Yes.

A kiting frigate can beat an A/C Thrasher.

A fast brawler frig can beat an Arty Thrasher.

That's generally how it would play out in terms of strength vs. weakness.

Can a Brawler frig beat an A/C Thrasher? Yes, but that would come down to proper fittings an skills. With dual-TD, MWD, respectable tank (to take the occasional hits) and enough DPS to get the job done - it is doable. This, of course, presumes the Thrasher has a web, which is why the MWD is necessary.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#22 - 2012-08-12 04:14:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Let me tell you about TD hookbills. Barrage won't save you.


I was referring to t1 frigates. Navy frigates have a number of kiting options, of course.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-08-12 04:35:37 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Let me tell you about TD hookbills. Barrage won't save you.


I was referring to t1 frigates. Navy frigates have a number of kiting options.


Here's a list of some T2 frigs that could solo pop an A/C Thrasher:

Kestrel (LML): Keep the transversal up to avoid the lucky shots because you'll be made of paper. Just make sure to stay within warp disruptor range.

Merlin (150mm Rail w/ CN Iron charges): Transversal is less of an issue here. Kite in the middle of your falloff - any further, dude hits the brakes and you pull out of warp disruptor range.

Executioner (Medium Pulses - "baby slicer"): Less effective than the above, but doable with long point and careful piloting. The new reduction in cap use for point allows you to nearly permarun prop or fit a small repper in one of the lows (heat sinks for the other two).

Perhaps a rail Atron as well, but I'd rather the above 3 before this.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#24 - 2012-08-12 06:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Kestrel (LML): Keep the transversal up to avoid the lucky shots because you'll be made of paper. Just make sure to stay within warp disruptor range.


No. Transversal will never be high enough to mean anything between the MWD sig bloom and the fact that you're being shot at by autocannons.

A LML kestrel will be virtually untanked and will do terrible damage. If the thrasher is able to close the distance to ~15km for even a few second you'll start going down quickly, and will take forever and a day to kill the thrasher.


Quote:
Merlin (150mm Rail w/ CN Iron charges): Transversal is less of an issue here. Kite in the middle of your falloff - any further, dude hits the brakes and you pull out of warp disruptor range.


since the speed buff, maybe. With CN iron, though, your damage would be so low that you'd cap yourself out before actually killing him. Fortunately, CN iron gives you way more optimal than you need. CN thorium would be better.

[Merlin, Kite?]

Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Shield Extender II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Thorium Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Thorium Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Thorium Charge S

Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I

Might work...But it caps itself out in 1m30s which could be a problem
To mare
Advanced Technology
#25 - 2012-08-12 06:50:20 UTC
i killed AC thrashers in a rocket kestrel with mwd and javelin rockets and range rigs just stay at 15/18km and he cant hurt you and even with speed penalty the kestrel its still faster.
also you can kill thrashers whit a double med ancillary shield booster merlin (no mwd just 2 MASB point and web) they will come at point blank anyway and at that point they cant get away
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#26 - 2012-08-12 08:20:50 UTC
Merlin with 3x150's ,AB Web Scram TD, DC 200mm and ANP II, pg speed and damage rigs.

OH your point click keep at range at 8.5k. Dead AC thrasher.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#27 - 2012-08-12 09:09:39 UTC
[Merlin, PVP - kite]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-08-12 09:58:33 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
[Merlin, PVP - kite]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I



"Interesting" fit. Almost no tank at all, no web, a cap booster and only 1 damage mod. I guess you're going for a pure speed tank with the nano and MWD, but with pretty much no tank and the sig bloom from the MWD, if you're hit, you die. And no, the TD will not save you. Not mention 2 fitting rigs for a T1 frig.

I think this fit needs work.
Abannan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-08-12 13:11:40 UTC
150mm railgun comet has no issues with ac thrashers
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#30 - 2012-08-12 17:22:35 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
[Merlin, PVP - kite]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I



"Interesting" fit. Almost no tank at all, no web, a cap booster and only 1 damage mod. I guess you're going for a pure speed tank with the nano and MWD, but with pretty much no tank and the sig bloom from the MWD, if you're hit, you die. And no, the TD will not save you. Not mention 2 fitting rigs for a T1 frig.

I think this fit needs work.


If you'd bother to check how that TD actually affects stuff you'll notice that it WILL work just fine, and you don't need tank if you have the range, TD and speed advantage. Actually, it'll work against many targets.
Yabba Addict
Legion of the Many
#31 - 2012-08-12 19:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
[Merlin, Kiting]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 75

125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge S

Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

I prefer the 125's, you get less paper dps but they track sooo much better

ED: And yes, the TD makes a real difference, i've managed a scorch coercer in this
Antonio Medichi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-08-12 21:52:47 UTC
with some skill, a rifter will destroy just about anything
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-08-13 01:09:29 UTC
All subcaps can kill all subcaps...

I'm back!
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-08-13 01:44:40 UTC
[Dramiel, armor tanked nos td dram]
Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Coreli C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II

Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Coreli B-Type 1MN Afterburner

150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
Corpii C-Type Small Nosferatu

Small Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x3

Shoudnt have a problem, orbit at 500, tracking speed script and have fun!

Otherwise a arty wolf should win, a raildevil should win easily (thrasher dps is, even with barrage, useless outside 16km), railharpy, sentinel will eat it, really any kiting frigate should do... . For brawling an enyo has a good chance, as does a vengeance/hawk (stay at 8km and plink away), or a dualweb harpy! A td firetail can do the same as a dram, and outfly it!
To mare
Advanced Technology
#35 - 2012-08-13 09:51:46 UTC
Antonio Medichi wrote:
with some skill, a rifter will destroy just about anything

same goes for the ibis
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#36 - 2012-08-13 15:53:55 UTC
(Incursus

150mm Railgun x3 (CN Antimatter)

Afterburner
Scram
Web

DC
SAR
ANP
Overdrive

DPS Drone

Burst rig / Collision rig)

This can handle AC Thrashers. Some fights might be close but diving in and out of scram range so you get breaks away from his DPS is a pretty good trick to use. It can escape when it chooses, as well, so you do not need to commit to the fight.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#37 - 2012-08-13 15:58:42 UTC
Koujjo Dian wrote:
I had a Firetail with a TD kill my Coercer earlier. I made some piloting mistakes, mainly not getting it turned away from him soon enough but I still think I would have had to have flown it absolutely perfectly in order to win that fight. Truthfully I do not enjoy flying the Coercer. Frigate fights are much more fun but the Thrasher is hugely popular in FW minor plexes so I've felt compelled to fly a destroyer in order to counter them.

So after losing this fight it's got me thinking "Is there any Amarr frigate that can do the same thing to the Thrasher?". I think maybe a Slicer might stand a chance but the huge sig bloom from the MWD scares me. I'd love to be able to punch above my weight in a frigate but I just can't devise a laser boat that could do it. Suggestions?



Slicer can keep range of the trasher and has way superior range. But it cannot force the destroyer to stay.. altough in FW(that based on your question I suppose is the scenario) just scarign someone away is half a victory already.
Tillimitrus Sand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-08-13 23:21:49 UTC
As the above people have been saying. Anything with rails and a TD, scram and web, AB will work. I personally chew T2 fitted Thrashers to pieces easily with my TD/150 rail Merlin. It also likes to snack on Rifters of a perticular fit.
If you want to fly safe then dock up. I always fly deadly. - Xeris 7
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#39 - 2012-08-14 06:33:38 UTC
Here is a rough list of the frigates that can kill an ac thrasher

Most of the time: Rail Daredevil, pretty much any standard Hawk or Hookbill fit, most Vengeance fits, Kiting Slicers, Rail Ranis, Blaster/Rail Harpy, Helios, Buzzard, Armour Jags/Firetails/Dramiels, Sentinels and anything else that can hit it beyond 14km without letting it leave

Some of the time: Blaster/Rail Incursus/Merlin, Close Range Wolf, Close Range Retributions, Blaster Ranis/Comet, Cheetah, Anathema, im sure there are other fits that can do it but my brain is having a little fart at the moment.

All you have to remember is most people who fly AC thrashers stick to the same MSE/Scram/MWD fit and pretty much never change ammo out of the standard PP/EMP/Fusion types so a lot have really terrible dps at 8-10k so anything that can sit beyond that mark and still do dps will have a chance against a thrasher and there are plenty of frigates now that can do that.

The lists above are by no means foolproof they are just based around my experience of flying the above ships or fighting them.

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-08-14 10:06:36 UTC
Korg Tronix wrote:
Here is a rough list of the frigates that can kill an ac thrasher

Most of the time: Rail Daredevil, pretty much any standard Hawk or Hookbill fit, most Vengeance fits, Kiting Slicers, Rail Ranis, Blaster/Rail Harpy, Helios, Buzzard, Armour Jags/Firetails/Dramiels, Sentinels and anything else that can hit it beyond 14km without letting it leave

Some of the time: Blaster/Rail Incursus/Merlin, Close Range Wolf, Close Range Retributions, Blaster Ranis/Comet, Cheetah, Anathema, im sure there are other fits that can do it but my brain is having a little fart at the moment.

All you have to remember is most people who fly AC thrashers stick to the same MSE/Scram/MWD fit and pretty much never change ammo out of the standard PP/EMP/Fusion types so a lot have really terrible dps at 8-10k so anything that can sit beyond that mark and still do dps will have a chance against a thrasher and there are plenty of frigates now that can do that.

The lists above are by no means foolproof they are just based around my experience of flying the above ships or fighting them.


+1 for this list.

Also the Buzzard is probably the best ship to go after the Thrasher, maybe not for technical reasons, but for lol factor.

And I've killed AC Thrashers in various frigs, probably 10 or more. And no I will not got get the killmails, I don't care about this thread enough to do so.

I'm back!