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Suggest ship for alt to assist in Lvl 4 missions

Author
Ucankurbaga
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-08-11 14:58:15 UTC
I am currently running Drake and snoring may way through lvl 3 missions. I managed to do some lvl 4 missions solo like Worlds Collide and others but it take ages. The tanking is fine but I am lacking in dps. This is due to fact that I am also low on skill points.

So I want to train my alt to support with dps in missions. I currently have some gallente ships training but the alt is fairly new and low on sp. What ship you suggest to train for my alt to help dps in lvl 4 missions? I would appreciate if it is one that doesn't take ages to train.

Thanks.
Lili Lu
#2 - 2012-08-11 15:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Train your main into a Raven or Nighthawk or Tengu or CNR or CNScorp or Rattlesnake. Train your second account into a Noctis. Smile
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-08-11 15:18:28 UTC
Depending on where you do missions an apocalypse, abaddon, naga, megathron, dominix, oracle, and tornado can all make good fire support ships. The raven can do well also, but two missile times and the delays associated with missiles might get a bit annoying. The typhoon, and especially the navy typhoon, has great potential as a fire support ship, but it requires too many skills trained for a quick fix like you're looking for.

Personally, I trained up an Amarr alt and stuck her in an abaddon for fire support when multi-boxing L4s. It wasn't the best ship for Angel or Guristas missions, but it did quite well for everything else. With a full rack of tachyons and the damage bonus it had solid damage projection and the armor resistance bonus gave it some GTFO room.
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2012-08-11 15:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
If you put a painter on your Drake and heavy tank it then you can train your alt into a Naga and do some damage. Get all the aggro on the Drake, bring the Naga in, burn to range and unleash hell with Meta 4, 425mm Rails. Rail 4, BC 4, Weapon Support Skills 4 and a cheaper cost then a Battleship.

You should be able to warp it out if a new spawn grabs aggro by putting a mid sized omni buffter on it, but you'll still want to read mission reports on EVE Survival, drops the chance of being caught off guard significantly especially when tackle is involved. Almost to 0.

If the alt isn't Caldari any Tier 3 would do.
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-08-11 15:30:42 UTC
The real answer is T3 BC. Everything else just costs more and is slower.

I'll quote myself from another similiar topic:

Quote:

Obvious solution for dps support would be a tier3 bc:

Quote:

Quote:

[Talos, PvE support]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large Shield Extender II
[empty med slot]

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5


Empty mid can be Ewar of choice (web/tp), does between 1158 (t1 Antimatter) and 1458 (Void) dps. Kill frigs on approach or with 10 frig-eating light drones and melt the battleships.

Quote:

[Tornado, PvE support]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L

Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


No drones, less dps, but better speed and bigger range. Also selectable dmg types.
828 dps with t1 ammo, 1063 with Hail.
TC are again whatever you want them to be (tp/web/etc)


Quote:

[Naga, PvE support]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Could work as a Blaster ship, but the Talos is far better in this role, so I post this rail fit. Has obviously less dps, less Tank, but much more range. Can take aggro without needing to warp out immediately. Needs Cap mod to be stable even without MWD running. Between 719 and 837 dps at 70+49km. No travel time between targets.

Quote:

[Oracle, PvE support]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large Shield Extender II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L

Medium Energy Collision Accelerator II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Few midslots, so no Ewar support, again needs Cap rig for cap stability with just guns cycling. Combines good short range dps (856 - 1099) with almost Naga-like range with Scorch (785 @64+19km). Tracking is abysmal, on the plus site there are no ammo costs as long as you use t1 crystals.


Ucankurbaga
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-08-11 15:35:42 UTC
Thanks guys I am really liking your suggestions. Especially Naga, it looks like very nice ship and I am very interested in it. However I was also interested in Hurricane, which I didn't see anyone suggesting. What do you guys think of this ship, in terms of what I am looking for.

PS: My alt is also salvager with Noctis, thx for suggestion though..
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-08-11 15:54:26 UTC
The Hurricane has neither Dps nor Range compared to T3 BCs. It's also slower
Alara IonStorm
#8 - 2012-08-11 16:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Ucankurbaga wrote:
Thanks guys I am really liking your suggestions. Especially Naga, it looks like very nice ship and I am very interested in it. However I was also interested in Hurricane, which I didn't see anyone suggesting. What do you guys think of this ship, in terms of what I am looking for.

PS: My alt is also salvager with Noctis, thx for suggestion though..

Hurricanes good. Has trouble tanking lvl 4's and doing strong DPS but smaller tank for lvl 3's lets it bring its considerable firepower to bear. With a ship tanking for it can make more use of that firepower.

Here is the catch. For Autocannons that means not to much Damage beyond 15km with standard ammo and Artillery is considerably lower DPS then AC's with a solid mid range (30km) but any longer range ammo drops that DPS down much further. In lvl 3's this isn't much of an issue but in lvl 4's there is a lot more range involved in most missions.

A ship like a Tornado has a falloff of closer to 70km with Autocannons when boosted by TE / TC's using T1 Ammo whereas a Cane's Auto's you are looking at 30km falloff with Barrage and 2 TE's with considerably lower DPS.

The Hurricane makes an excellent lvl 3 runner and an amazing PvP Shield skirmish vessel and PvP Armor 2x Web Snare, but you have better options for PvE as a DPS support ship. It is worth training but not in this role.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-11 16:12:49 UTC
The hurricane is best used as a close-in AC boat and that sort of thing tends to require a lot of micro-management when used in missions. It's best used in conjunction with an AFK/super-tanked drone boat doing the mission tanking for it, not a drake.
Ucankurbaga
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-08-11 16:29:11 UTC
Ok hurricane sounds like it is similar to drake role so pass on that. Looks like I am going with Naga.

I will eventually upgrade my Drake to CNR when the time comes but do you guys also take 2 combat ships in your missions? Or just solo them with one strong ship? I am also interested to know if this is effective way of completing missions.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-08-11 19:49:02 UTC
Personally, until your skills get really high and you start just blitzing missions for the isk and LP you're better off putting both ships in the same mission. Once both of your alts can use the same agents you can both take missions then do one, have the noctics alt loot/salvage it while the other alt starts the next mission, and go from there.

I myself tend to run 4 accounts and have a dedicated noctis pilot cleaning up after three heavily gank-fit battleships. Typically I have at least two battleships in any given mission, though when there aren't any missions to turn in and the current one has awhile to run yet I've got all three in it. Thanks to the mining ship updates I'll be looking at running 6 accounts in missions soon. The retriever changes make it quite practical to have a couple of my mining alts mine mission ore on a semi-afk basis. With a little work, and no care for maximizing mining yield, pushing 22.1k EHP and 6.7k raw shield HP, before my primary alt's 10% shield HP bonus, is quite easy and should suffice to handle accidental aggro or those, "Oh hey, you're mining your mission. Imma gonna make some friends for you" "belt" spawns that show up when all the mission NPCs are dead.
AKilla Sunday
EVE Corporation 98582134
#12 - 2012-08-11 21:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: AKilla Sunday
Navy dominix 700ish dps - high - 2 large remote rep
- 1 large cap transfer
- drone links
med - 3 cap rech
- 3 drone navig comps
low - 2 x deadspace adaptive (about 80m each)
- 2x deadspace c-type (same as above)
- 3x drone damage
RIG - 3x capacitor size (can't remember the name)

EFT with it and you will maybe optimize the fit to your skills.

This domi wil be set to keep at range the dps ship at 3000+ and have drones set on guard. Rep as needed.

Train remote rep skill and capacitor skills to V(energy em toIV).
Cybernetics to 4 and plug in all +5% 6-10 implant slots.(there is no slot 10 remote rep or capacitor)
Also about 3.5-4.5m SP in drones needed (T2 ogres is all you will ever need - drone nav V and the above fit they move on field at above 2k m/s).

Second account go for CNR 900ish dps - high -7 t2 launcher (or caldari navy till skills are trained
-1x large cap transfer
med - 1x caldatri navy boost amp
-1x X-large c-type shield booster
- 2x caldari navy invulns(only mission i need a 3rd hardner is the assault - swap a TP)
-2xTp'x
low- 4xcaldari BCu
- 1x signal amplifier
Rigs - 3x rigors
Ideally 3d account is a noctis.

With this setup : domi requires little management - pull drones in as next wave hits rest of time leave them on guard - it's tank is good enough for any agro- the assault might give you some trouble but with good flying and management i found warping out is not needed.
Goes withouth saying that CNR rips trough large targets with missiles and uses small/med drones for ellite/regular frigs.

Get to know the missions before you start acting cocky and end up loosing a ship. With a little practice you will get a feeling of wich missions are to be ignored (the score / the anomaly and a few others) and wich missions you must not make mistakes in (enemies abound part 3 and the assault).

All 3 accounts have access to L4 agents and are running 3 or 6X missions sessions depending on number of agents in station.

Doable with ease in a 2 monitor setup.

Hope you will apreciate this info and go over the quality of writting and spelling.


EDIT : moar info and stuff
ashley Eoner
#13 - 2012-08-11 21:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Ucankurbaga wrote:
Ok hurricane sounds like it is similar to drake role so pass on that. Looks like I am going with Naga.

I will eventually upgrade my Drake to CNR when the time comes but do you guys also take 2 combat ships in your missions? Or just solo them with one strong ship? I am also interested to know if this is effective way of completing missions.
Two of my DPS alts currently run hurricanes with 3x gyro 2x TEs in the lows with ACs combined with a MWD so they can get within the 22 KM fall off in no time and apply very heavy DPS. Hurricanes are cheap ships and can be used for PVPing or low sec fun when you're done with them.

The third alt is in a harbinger with heavy modulated pulse energy beams which also has 3x extruded heat sinks 1x TE (need tracking boost without using an active module because the weapons and MWD eat the cap enough as is). This alt is quite a bit newer so it doesn't have the fitting skills to keep the cap up like the other ships. I was also sick of missile and projectile using ships (main flies a gank fit CNR). That's the only reason I went with an Amarr alt. Long term goal is to get it into a nightmare then specialize into large pulse for scorch.

All of my dps ships run a token buffer tank with an adaptive invulnerability II. The harbinger runs an additional DCU because it's tanking skills leave it too far behind the others without.

Once I get those alts skilled up enough I'll actually start running separate level 4s at the same time but for now they are running pretty much pure DPS boats with the final alt following behind in a noctis cleaning everything up.

With this setup I grab missions on all the toons then full clear them hardcore with an omni tank on the CNR. If stuff goes right I can bang out 5 level 4s in well under an hour.
XZemlja
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-08-12 01:15:45 UTC
i have dominix for my vargur/paladin. it is very cheap and effective
dominix have 600+ dps on two good ranges and can give energy or repair armor/restore shield.
for example dominix give vargur energy and vargur is immortal in all missions and storylines. the second good thing is i can easy fit ab on both ships and do missions very quick.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-08-12 02:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
Navy dominix and the rattlesnake can both make very good fire support drone ships, but in two separate ways. The navy dominix will, hands down, put out the most raw DPS of either ship, but the slot layout of the rattlesnake lets it load up on 4 damage mods and fill the mid slots with a minimum of 3 omni links and 3 drone nav CPUs. This can make heavy drones very, very effective in situations where you want the rattlesnake to follow around behind the main ship. Now yes, the navy dominix can fit 3 of each as well due to the extra mid slot over the standard dominix, but the rattlesnake can also pack the MWD/AB with a 3/3 drone upgrade split that the navy dominix can't. On the flip side the navy dominix can also pack a bit of a tank whereas the rattlesnake would be relying on a DC2 and it's shield buffer/regeneration to stay alive in case of accidental aggro or AoE damage situations.

Of course I have yet to see a mission with AoE that you'd need a fire support ship in, but it wouldn't surprise me if CCP tried implemeting some in the future.

Just for ***** and giggles:

855 m/s and 1074 raw DPS:
[Rattlesnake, Fire Support]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo
Drone Link Augmentor I
'Recusant' Hostile Targeting Array I

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Garde II x5
Ogre II x5 (pushing 2km/s)

1005m/s @ 1156 DPS
[Dominix Navy Issue, DPS Support]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
Ogre II x5 (pushing 1721m/s)

Mind you DPS numbers are with the sentries, not the ogres.

Of course if you're going to have an MWD on the ship you might consider blasters. A rack of neutrons would need a 3% grid implant or better and would put out about 1413 rDPS while ions would hit 1370.
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#16 - 2012-08-12 03:18:33 UTC
A Guardian. Throw away all tank modules on your DPS ship and rep with the logi. Refit with damage mods, profit.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-08-12 03:32:22 UTC
2 vargurs go.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-08-12 03:33:40 UTC
I use a domi myself. Good rep,dps support and plus can field a tank for accidental aggro as well.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#19 - 2012-08-12 03:46:36 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
2 vargurs go.


2 Vargurs with 5 medium RR drones for your tank. It's enough tank. No, really. It is.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#20 - 2012-08-12 10:28:04 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Train your main into a Raven or Nighthawk or Tengu or CNR or CNScorp or Rattlesnake. Train your second account into a Noctis. Smile


I would say no because 80% of the time it is going to be sitting there doing nothing. the t3 bcs would probably be the fastest way to get some good fire support. if already gallente maybe go talos just to get there a bit faster? (but they are both very similar ships so probably get there nearly the same time)

and with 2 vargs in mission do you even need a tank P

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

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