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So, the march toward rock, paper, scissors continues
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Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-10-12 19:33:15 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Please refrain from making dumb supers whine threads.

Perish the though! Supercap nerf tears are the best thing ever

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-12 19:35:38 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
So do Artillery thrashers, and AML Caracals.



AML navy caracal hurts even moreSad

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
#23 - 2011-10-12 19:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rocky Deadshot
I'd have to disagree that this game is marching toward rock, paper, scissors.
Now rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock ... maybe

From the dev posts I've seen, I think come winter we are going to see an increase in diversity on the battle field. With hybrids getting a re balance and the supers nerf... seems like fleet diversity might be on the rise. Also i've seen devs on multiple occasions talk about wanting to explore diversifying the roles of current sub-cap ships that may or may not be of major use right now, especially in pvp.

I would love to see black ops re worked so that it was used for something more than just AFK cloaky, and hot drops. I'd love to see marauders re worked so they were something more than a mission runners wet dream. I'd love to see new ship t2 classes introduced, especially for destroyer and battlecruisers and i'd really like to see the tier 2 BCs and tier 3 BSs hull used in future ships. There is alot of cool/fun stuff FiS can do... and I feel most of its current projects are just a stepping stone into a diversified Eve.

After all.... Internet Spaceships are serious business.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-10-12 19:43:17 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Please refrain from making dumb supers whine threads.

Perish the though! Supercap nerf tears are the best thing ever

Every time I see a goon use the word "tears" I question which side really won the culture war.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-10-12 19:44:32 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Please refrain from making dumb supers whine threads.

Perish the though! Supercap nerf tears are the best thing ever

Every time I see a goon use the word "tears" I question which side really won the culture war.

Using pubbie memes against them is proof that we won.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-10-12 19:45:05 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
So do Artillery thrashers, and AML Caracals.



AML navy caracal hurts even moreSad

I have been tossing around the idea of an AML Drake to bait and kill Dramiels. I figure it would be viable because the AML Caracal is a fairly well-known thing to be avoided by frigates, but a Drake is almost exclusively presumed to be fitted with HMLs and therefore presents a much more inviting target. What do you think about this? I am thinking of a dual-web fit with a scram and a medium neutralizer in the utility high slot, but I am torn between an afterburner or a microwarpdrive.

Suggestions?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-10-12 19:45:55 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Please refrain from making dumb supers whine threads.

Perish the though! Supercap nerf tears are the best thing ever

Every time I see a goon use the word "tears" I question which side really won the culture war.

Using pubbie memes against them is proof that we won.

One of these days we're going to get blind-sided by some random ass pubbie telling us to kill our are selves.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Cydori
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-10-13 17:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cydori
Covert Kitty wrote:
Most everyone agrees with your statement and that's essentially why the supercap changes are coming. There is quite a bit of versatility with most ships in the game, however none of that matters if you can just field a couple handfuls of supercaps and destroy any subcap fleet in the game. These changes are being made for the sake of versatility as well as balance.


I get that. As I said in my original post, supers do need to be changed and no ship in the game ought to be an "I win" button. So I fully understand the reasoning behind this particular nerf and I generally support it.

But what I don't want to see happen is one ship after another be nerfed to the point where it serves one single purpose and nothing else, because there are already far too many ships in EVE which fit that description. Is it possible to fit ships in different ways? Of course it is, as almost any ship in EVE can fit multiple modules. However, in far too many cases the majority of fits are pure rubbish. And even in those cases where multiple fits are possible, nearly all of them are geared toward the same basic purpose. So while different fits are possible, that doesn't necessarily equate to a whole lot of real flexibility.

We need more ships that can be utilized in a wide variety of roles. Tech 3 was supposed to bring exactly that, but...

What I'm really asking for is that changes to ships be part of a cohesive, well thought out plan to bring balance and flexibility to combat in EVE instead of just a giant nerf which hammers down whatever the ship of the month happens to be. This month it's supers, next month some other ship will get nerfed into irrelevance. CCP really ought to have figured out this process by now.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-10-13 17:30:11 UTC
Large and cohesive changes will never happen in this MMO, any other MMO, or any other business. Changes occur in increments so that they can individually be documented and analysed by the numbers guys whose job it is to make charts and graphs about things to do with the company's income and how any changes to income reflect changes in business model.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Cydori
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-10-13 17:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cydori
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Large and cohesive changes will never happen in this MMO, any other MMO, or any other business. Changes occur in increments so that they can individually be documented and analysed by the numbers guys whose job it is to make charts and graphs about things to do with the company's income and how any changes to income reflect changes in business model.


Large changes never happen in EVE? Since when?

On a more serious note, I know changes are generally going to happen in iterations, which is a good thing. But that still doesn't mean they can't be part of a cohesive plan. And if changes aren't part of a cohesive plan, then no wonder parts of the game are so f***ed up.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-10-13 17:46:24 UTC
Cydori wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Large and cohesive changes will never happen in this MMO, any other MMO, or any other business. Changes occur in increments so that they can individually be documented and analysed by the numbers guys whose job it is to make charts and graphs about things to do with the company's income and how any changes to income reflect changes in business model.


Large changes never happen in EVE? Since when?

On a more serious note, I know changes are generally going to happen in iterations, which is a good thing.

It is entirely possible for a cohesive plan—let's call it Situation B—to be theoretically and demonstrably superior to the initial scenario in which one finds oneself. Let's call that initial state Situation A. For the sake of a clear point, let us presume that fully implementing Situation B will result in a 25% increase to total subscriptions for your MMO. It is also entirely possible for Situation B to be composed of several elements: let's call those, for the sake of brevity, Component A, Component B, Component C, and Component D. Also for the sake of simplicity, let us assume that these components of Situation B shall be introduced in increments according to alphabetical order, over the course of a proposed one-year deployment rather than all at once.


T = 0 : Situation A
— Subscription Numbers = 100%

T + 90 : Deploy Component A
— Subscription Numbers = 110%

T + 180 : Deploy Component B
— Subscription Numbers = 95%

T + 270 : Deploy Component C
— Subscription Numbers = 85%

T + 360 : Deploy Component D
— Subscription Numbers = 120%


Sounds all well and good, yes? Well, no. Because the plan is being deployed in increments, Component D never gets deployed because at T + 270 it is very obvious that the roll-out of Situation B is a flop. It gets abandoned in lieu of trying some other thing that won't cut revenues by 15% with a clear trend towards losing even more income.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-10-13 18:02:12 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I don't think you have much experience in this game. Name me a ship, and I'll give you some fittings for it.


Diemost - armor fit OC

Tell me how much you guys love those in your fleets Lol
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#33 - 2011-10-13 18:03:22 UTC
mmm rocks Lol

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-10-13 18:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Tanya Powers wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I don't think you have much experience in this game. Name me a ship, and I'll give you some fittings for it.


Diemost - armor fit OC

Tell me how much you guys love those in your fleets Lol

Deimos is unironically very useful in certain "activities" which are sometimes very "profitable".

e: Besides, even if the Deimos was useless there is a difference between "not useful at all" and "one trick pony".

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-10-13 18:12:59 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
I don't think you have much experience in this game. Name me a ship, and I'll give you some fittings for it.


Diemost - armor fit OC

Tell me how much you guys love those in your fleets Lol

Deimos is unironically very useful in certain "activities" which are sometimes very "profitable".

e: Besides, even if the Deimos was useless there is a difference between "not useful at all" and "one trick pony".


Ho you loved my pony huh? Lol
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-10-13 18:33:04 UTC
I absolutely adore Rainbow Dash.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
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