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Sleeper aggression priorities
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#1 - 2012-08-08 17:43:01 UTC
Due to a recent PVP mishap, I've become aware that I don't really have a clear understanding of what mechanics dictate sleeper aggression. I know they tend to dislike ECM, but I've never seen a solid list of what modules they'll consider priority, nor do I know for certain whether they react to the presence of the module, or its use.

Does anyone have a good source for this information?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#2 - 2012-08-08 18:12:49 UTC
No, but from personal experience they particularly hate ALL forms of ewar (damps, ecm, points, webs, tracking disruption), remote reps, and gang links. I think it's based on what modules you are actually running, not just have fit/what ship you are flying. I know that when we fleetwarped into several sites in a row, the ship with the gang link generally got primaried first, followed by one of the logis, followed by a webby faction BS. There was some variation, but that was the most common order.
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-08-09 00:27:45 UTC
General rule is they hate everything, including you.

Every time we think we have figured out a "If X happens, Y follows", it's changed a bit later down the line.

I'm fairly sure no one has figured out the mechanics because I honestly think they know more about our ships than another player would. I also think there is a grain of randomness in there to throw off any attempts.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2012-08-09 01:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
This is from general observation and the exact coding is probably quite different but:

They seem to randomly cycle through a bunch of different attack "patterns" each lasting roughly a minute or so with each pattern having a slightly different weighting for what they will shoot at most, while ewar and sig radius seem to be present predominantly as a basis for what they like to shoot at most how much of a multiplier they are towards what will be shot at most seems to vary a bit. I'm not sure if theres some rough record taking of what patterns were most effective but if you spent quite awhile on a site they seem to come back more and more often to the attack "patterns" that work most effectively and would also be why sometimes they seem quite passive and other times will come out of the blue and hit you hard if they are randomly cycling to a "pattern" that happens to work well against your fleet.

While the exact nature of the implementation is probably a little more crude than what I'm describing it seems to be somewhere along those lines.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-08-09 02:24:37 UTC
rofflesausage wrote:
General rule is they hate everything, ESPECIALLY you


^fixed it for you.

the rule of thumb is: expect full agro whenever you warp into a sleeper site, regardless of what ship you are in.

There is no Bob.

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Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
#6 - 2012-08-09 03:07:07 UTC
The sleeper can determine what ship to shoot based on how weak your tank is.

The ship with the weakest tank has the highest chance of becoming primary.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#7 - 2012-08-09 04:12:06 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:
The sleeper can determine what ship to shoot based on how weak your tank is.

The ship with the weakest tank has the highest chance of becoming primary.


Two tengus and a drake to storm c3. One tengu is MASB and the other is buffer tankingnwith expanded probe and TP. Drake probides tp also and drones. Drones almost never get aggroed. Buffer tengu and drake are almost always primiered. Only trick that always worked was to shut all hardeners and the booster on MASB tengu and let him get the aggro.Two months of this.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#8 - 2012-08-09 08:30:24 UTC
In my experience it varies a lot with the kind and combination of ships used and also with the specific sleeper site. Some examples from my own experience:

1. C3 anomalies OFS, FFS, Oruze, flying with a battleship and a logistics, both RR'ing, tracking links on logistics, TP and dualweb on BS: Aggro is quite evenly split between the ships, drones NEVER get aggro.

2. C3 anomaly Solar Cell with above setup: One of the waves sometimes targets drones, but so rarely that when it happens I usually notice too late and lose a drone Ugh

3. C2 anomalies with two Drakes, one of them with a gang link and ECCM: >90% of aggro to the Drake with the link

4. Any solo ship: Drones get so much aggro that they're basically not usable.

I think there is some kind of formula and different sleepers have different values set for certain variables in the formula. On top of that I assume there is a random roll of the dice involved in every "aggression cycle". So we have those distinct but non-deterministic patterns.

.
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#9 - 2012-08-09 12:26:21 UTC
Also, any ship de-cloaking in a site is almost certainly going to get the Sleepers full and immediate attention. Lol

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
Lucius Arcturus
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-09 12:32:04 UTC
In my experience they seem to be mostly interested in remote reppers, and rarely attack anything else.

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Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-08-10 08:21:18 UTC
Suddenly Appearing on Grid > Jammers > Logistics > Regular ships.

Jammers pull aggro immediately after a failed jam cycle that follows a successful jam cycle.

Logistics will pull aggro more regularly than ships without logistics (unconfirmed about whether fitted and running or just fitted matters).

Appearing on grid in the middle of a site seems to give you additional chance to grab all aggro, but this is mostly unconfirmed anecdotal evidence every time I appear on grid to shoot people and they think I'm hot tamales. It could also be a "weakest" tank kind of thing, since PVP ships that aren't T3 tend to be fitted a little more gank than tank. I have definitely noticed that the weakest tank on the field will take the most aggro most consistently through a site.

Svodola Darkfury.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Zicon Shak'ra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-08-10 12:41:21 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Suddenly Appearing on Grid > Jammers > Logistics > Regular ships.



This. Though I have seen them not switch to people suddenly appearing on grid if there is enough ECM/logi fielded. However, it's rare. When warping to/decloaking in a Sleeper site, always expect to be primaried instantly.

Wormholes are cool, m'kay?
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-08-10 13:04:30 UTC
Didn't read through every reply, but if anyone tries to give you a comprehensive list, they're lying. CCP has not released this info, so anything anyone says is conjecture.

Now, there are those of us who have lived in wormholes for years, and can provide some decent insight. Just as long as we all understand it's not final. As someone else said, as soon as you think you have it nailed down, they do something unexpected.

One thing most of us agree on is that sleepers hate ECM. That is the closest thing to consistency I've ever seen, both in my experiences and reading others. Logistics is sort of hit or miss. I used to fly a Scimitar in some of our roams. Only Logi, and while I would get targetted more than in say my Domi, it wasn't exclusive by any means.

Will also take the time to once again debunk the drone myth. Sleepers do not hate drones any more than usual. They do not eat drones up, do not alpha them outside of C5s. I lived in wormhole space for quite a while, and never lost a drone to sleepers unless it was due to a disconnect, or pvp. The only reason people think they target drones more is because they solo sites in drone ships. Then the sleepers have 6 targets to choose from, and 5 of them are drones. Basic probability dictates a drone is probably going to get shot at. Pay attention and pull them in quickly, and you'll be fine.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-10 22:46:50 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Didn't read through every reply, but if anyone tries to give you a comprehensive list, they're lying. CCP has not released this info, so anything anyone says is conjecture.

Now, there are those of us who have lived in wormholes for years, and can provide some decent insight. Just as long as we all understand it's not final. As someone else said, as soon as you think you have it nailed down, they do something unexpected.

One thing most of us agree on is that sleepers hate ECM. That is the closest thing to consistency I've ever seen, both in my experiences and reading others. Logistics is sort of hit or miss. I used to fly a Scimitar in some of our roams. Only Logi, and while I would get targetted more than in say my Domi, it wasn't exclusive by any means.

Will also take the time to once again debunk the drone myth. Sleepers do not hate drones any more than usual. They do not eat drones up, do not alpha them outside of C5s. I lived in wormhole space for quite a while, and never lost a drone to sleepers unless it was due to a disconnect, or pvp. The only reason people think they target drones more is because they solo sites in drone ships. Then the sleepers have 6 targets to choose from, and 5 of them are drones. Basic probability dictates a drone is probably going to get shot at. Pay attention and pull them in quickly, and you'll be fine.


Educated guesses based on experience are not "lies." Any sweeping generalizations claiming "always" are incorrect in their accuracy but probably not intentional outright lies. As my post above says you are more likely to take "threat" based on those criteria but that does not make it a priority kill target type system.

Svodola Darkfury.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.