EVE General Discussion

Premise:

I'M NOT a miner.
I HATE mining.

The facts:

Ppl kept moaning about paper tank of mining ships (and they had quite right in my opinion, it's silly to lose a 180m ship due to a crap destroyer worth 3m in high sec) and about too much difference between T1 and T2 variant and again they were right.
CCP finally want to follow feedback and change this: GREAT! beside, as too often, they did it in the wrong way .
Why?

previously mining barges were ly beyond their T2 equivalent now they're too close, (there are plenty option in the middle, why such horrorific boos of barges?):

Retriever vs Mackinaw

retriever with 3x T2 ice harvester upgs and 1x ice harvester rig gets only 3 cubes less than same fitted mackinaw per hour what's the point of using the mack now? it has almost double tank than retriever yes, but for 3 cubes/h there's absolutly no reason to risk a 160M ship (and prices are even doubling)

even with this setup mackinaw has less yeld than old version: why? with the pos fuel block change u alredy forced many ppl to ice mine quite a bit more, now more again. And pls don't say "u have more tank and more ore space, can't expect same yeld" 'cause insted of force us u should just had to introduce the CHANCE of have more tank at the expense of yeld, who wants to have same yeld than before should be able to, thus of course sacrifiying tank and having similar ehp than before

that's still doable, an idea could be to increase bonus that ice harvester rig do and get mack's yeld as was before, adding a drawback on shield ehp

Ore hold: like this couldn't be enough they have now a massive ore hold, with 31k ore hold (bit less for retriever) afk ice miners love u now.

Covetor vs Hulk

here isn't as bad change as for mack/retriever still T1 is a bit too much close to T2 (about 9% yeld difference) but here again we've got more tank and less yeld: as above let us choose if we want more tank or same yeld as before

Ore hold isn't bad it keeps 2 cycles fair enough, maybe cargo could be slightly bigger to hold few more crystals (smth like 450 m3) not a big issue of course actually can still do its job.

I don't understand why the ice miner bonuses on both those ships, each class (with its variations) should have specific role like is for any other kind of ship. The strange thing is that even with the ice bonuses they're so far from retriever/mack (and that's right) that it's completely unuseful ice mine with em: just get rid of such bonuses.

Procurer vs Skiff

Yeld difference between those two seems nice (around 24%), making it worth risk T2 variant. No idea if CCP reduced yeld if compared with "old" versions but guess so.
Ore hold seems a bit too big but surely not as absurd as the retriever/mack one
With a very quick fit i've got 75k ehp and 140 dps cap stable omni-tank sing T2 mods only, pretty sure could be improved of quite a bit: i know it's meant to be used in 0.0 but isn't too much?
Again ice mining bonuses seems pretty unuseful expecially if u consider now u need same lvl of mining barge/exhumer skill to fly em all: why should u use procurer and covetor if with exaclty same skill (and almost same cost for the ship) u can use retriever that has way more yeld?


I'm playing eve since 2007 and i keep seeing CCP to "flatten it", every expansion they add always more things u can do and that's definitely great, but they also reduces the number of ways u might choose to do em and this isn't really a good thing.
Pls let player more "manouver space", that's what i would see on the game that, despite of everything's happening, i still love.

I apologize to everyone for the epitaph, just wanted to be more specific i could.


Addendum:

This change won't surely help to lower crazy mineral prices, u see this right?

I know it is hard when you finally have to make meaningful choices. A mackinaw has about twice the tank, more utility, 20% more ore hold and 5% more yield than a retriever. Better in every single way especially for the "autonomy" role it has been assigned but as you say more expensive. Do you think it is worth it?

Are you saying that miners still have the option to use a rokh with meaningful trade offs? That is outrageous.

Don't forget the Rokh ... yeah I know it is not technically a barge but it is still a viable option for max tank with decent yield but small cargo if that is how you want to play.

the only problem I see is the lack of rigs for common ore.

This update turned T1 mining ships into viable option yes and that's good indeed, but they also reduced the convenience of using T2 versions, even more 'cause they instead of just making T1s closer to T2 they also reduced T2 mining power. that's why i don't like this change, there is no way to be as efficient as before even at your own risk if u want too, that's a fact.
Alredy ore/ice have crazy price due to removal of T1 junk drops (that i agree), the pos fuel change and of course player speculation on that, they also made new cutting-edge mining ships less efficient: how do u think market will react?

What does it say about your hobby that you want to minimize the time you spend on it?

My only problem is that the T2 rigs (currently $160m for the pair) that were installed a year ago, are now not what I would use after the patch, and I was not offered a choice to remove them.

Since CCP made all these changes, which I think are fair, they should have thought about how ships were configured and allowed users to make a one time change, or at least stripped the now useless rigs off the ships and put them in the players cargo.

My 2 Cents.

you are not a miner, you do not mine.
your facts are simply outdated and incorrect.

please, never post again.

Obvoiusly u didnt do your math right. Atm with same skills i mine lots more than i did before patch. around 10 cubesx hour more.
Tnx but dont flame iwhen u didnt do your homework.