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Proteus. Drone subsystem upgrade. And advanced drone commands. (all ships with drone spaces)

Author
Rimsky
Dark Fall Inc
#1 - 2012-08-09 22:46:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimsky
Started up this thread about drone's and ship fitting mainly.
1. I think the Proteus should have 1 more offensive subsystem or at least a slightly edited one. As with the 2 main gun subsystems 1(Dissonic encoding platform) gives you full gun bonuses and no drone slots for that subsystem.

2. (hybrid propulsion armature) with 5 guns and gives 100% (in terms of bonuses) to guns. But sacrifices 1 extra bonus for 2 drones.

3. I personally would like a new remake of the drone synthesis projector which could give you at least 1 more drone (making 5 drones like the Ishtar) and 1 more bonus. and getting rid of any guns from that subsystem. giving the player more drone options and more spaces for drone link augmenters and other kits like that.

And then finally making the hybrid propulsion armature a compromise between the both.

Now about the advanced drone commands.

this is an interesting topic i and many others i knew were thinking about.
i was thinking of better drone settings and command options. because at the moment the drones are lacking in terms of intelligence. i sat there getting shot (could take it fine with my tank) and my drones just sat there. i was jammed so i couldn't target anything. so this is what i was thinking the new drone command tag should include.

1. If Shield/Armour/Hull damage = x% return to bay
2. if owner is under attack automatically engage aggressor. (unless the drones were jammed too/or another target was provided)
3.when no specified target is given (as i frequently let my drone slowly destroy everything) go for priority targets (player can set. for example ( target aggressor when 1st priority is jamming 2nd if aggressor is webbing 3rd if aggressor is disrupting tracking )) and so on.
4 (could be another option group for remote repair drones.) if any fleet member has x% of Shield/Armour/Hull repair
5 apply for different drone repair type. (Armour amount will only apply to fleet members with Armour damage.)

now my personal input (doesn't have anything to do with above) cargo hauling drones not for between systems but between ships in drone control range. they carry something like 250-1000 m3 and are slow and not well armored. so i can put ore into the orca without breaking a lock or even stop mining. so as well as guard and assist there will be (only for special hauler drones.) a transfer. could only be used for ore or objects of the same type.

i know its a really long post but i look forward for some feedback. i could be wrong and make ships overpowered and stuff but is my opinions and observations.
thanks for reading and i look forward for your reply's.
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-08-10 09:14:23 UTC
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.

I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.
eneman81
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-08-10 09:28:00 UTC
to be fair the proteus already steps all over the deimos toes already...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-08-10 11:32:29 UTC
Rather hard to make sense of the Proteus suggestions, and you don't really give many reasons as to why these changes are required.

Proteus currently sits in between the Myrm and Ishtar in the drone config, and I feel that is an appropriate position for a T3. If anything, one extra midslot would make it more viable as a sentry boat.

.

Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-08-10 11:53:27 UTC
Quote:

this is an interesting topic i and many others i knew were thinking about.
i was thinking of better drone settings and command options. because at the moment the drones are lacking in terms of intelligence. i sat there getting shot (could take it fine with my tank) and my drones just sat there. i was jammed so i couldn't target anything. so this is what i was thinking the new drone command tag should include.

1. If Shield/Armour/Hull damage = x% return to bay
2. if owner is under attack automatically engage aggressor. (unless the drones were jammed too/or another target was provided)
3.when no specified target is given (as i frequently let my drone slowly destroy everything) go for priority targets (player can set. for example ( target aggressor when 1st priority is jamming 2nd if aggressor is webbing 3rd if aggressor is disrupting tracking )) and so on.
4 (could be another option group for remote repair drones.) if any fleet member has x% of Shield/Armour/Hull repair
5 apply for different drone repair type. (Armour amount will only apply to fleet members with Armour damage.)


Don't agree one bit. Drones need micromanagement and that's good. If anything, I'd rather completely remove the Aggressive setting.
The only thing I'd like to see are keybinds to specific drone-groups, so you don't have to click around in your drone interface.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-08-10 11:55:15 UTC
Proteus does not need a drone buff. T3 ships are supposed to be general purpose, but even with a bastardized single-module gang support build the Proteus stomps all over the eos. While part of that is the fault of the eos being kind of sucky ever since it lost two turrets and only getting 75mb bandwidth a large chunk of it lays in just how good the proteus is.

[Proteus, Multi-Support Minimal Tank]
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II
Medium Shield Transporter II
Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Defensive - Warfare Processor
Proteus Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Garde II x4
Ogre II x3
Hammerhead II x2

Only thing an eos does better than that build is survive, and if it's supposed to avoid aggro (IOW PvE) then survival is irrelevant.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#7 - 2012-08-10 12:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
Nicaragua wrote:
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.

I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.


so if T3 shouldn't be able to do what HAC does, what with tengu and cerberus?
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#8 - 2012-08-10 15:26:01 UTC
Nicaragua wrote:
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.

I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.

There are other ways to make it not a better drone boat than the Ishtar. Like simply reducing the drone damage bonus and/or making it only apply to drone thermal damage.
The odd bandwidth is just a pain in the butt. If you use normal drones, you end up with a mix of heavies and mediums, flying at different speeds. If you use sentries... well, then you just have to skip that last one or launch some random drone, because there are no medium sentries.

If it's not supposed to out-damage the Ishtar, fine. Make it not out-damage the Ishtar. But if it's supposed to be using drones as a primary weapon, I think it should have 125 bandwidth.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-08-10 16:11:03 UTC
You're not going to see changes to T3s until they rebalance them across the board. They're currently too good and superior to far too many T2 ships.
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-08-10 18:25:23 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Nicaragua wrote:
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.

I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.


so if T3 shouldn't be able to do what HAC does, what with tengu and cerberus?


the relationship between cerb and tengu is clearly broken - whats your point ?

Honestly its futile to argue this point, devs have already commented on this and stated that T3's should not out perform HACS at HAC specialisations - those that do will be rebalanced.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-10 22:39:34 UTC
Nicaragua wrote:
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.


Agree on the Drone stuff but thing is that if my Deimos could ever be close to how good my Proteus is at dealing dmg and tanking stuff...

Quote:
I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.


So, a ship requiring as much lvl5 skills as Strategic Cruisers should just be subpar of every T2 hull in whatever field ?
Your reasoning is wrong, it's plain wrong probably because of myths created by silly people not being able to make a difference in between a T2 fitted T3 and a 3+ BILLIONS T3 fit.
The biggest problem of T3's after 2 of them with better command subs than command ships is how much silly people can be, and Eve players excel in this matter.

brb

Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-08-11 06:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicaragua
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Agree on the Drone stuff but thing is that if my Deimos could ever be close to how good my Proteus is at dealing dmg and tanking stuff...


You need to finish this sentence because i don't know what point you are trying to make.

Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


So, a ship requiring as much lvl5 skills as Strategic Cruisers should just be subpar of every T2 hull in whatever field ?


The difference in level 5 skill requirements between a HAC and a T3 are miniscule so this isn't a very good quantifier of why you think T3's should be better.


Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Your reasoning is wrong,


Its not just my reasoning, its also CCP's reasoning so you should probably get over it.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#13 - 2012-08-11 18:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Lets see:

- Legion can be fit to be a "super Zealot"
- 700 dps loki has no minnie HAC counter part at all
- tengu...
- blaster prot vs deimos is not even a contest

Yet *somehow* you stick to the "amagad T3 shouldn't replace HAC so Drone sub Prot shouldn't have 125m3!" because some clown at CCP (who are clueless as fck) stated this once?
Nicaragua
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-08-11 21:45:02 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Lets see:

- Legion can be fit to be a "super Zealot"
- 700 dps loki has no minnie HAC counter part at all
- tengu...
- blaster prot vs deimos is not even a contest

Yet *somehow* you stick to the "amagad T3 shouldn't replace HAC so Drone sub Prot shouldn't have 125m3!" because some clown at CCP (who are clueless as fck) stated this once?


Yup thats pretty much it, thanks for clarifying.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#15 - 2012-08-12 03:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


So, a ship requiring as much lvl5 skills as Strategic Cruisers should just be subpar of every T2 hull in whatever field ?


Then why do t3s generally out perform their racial field command ships? Command ships are bigger, slower, slower AND require more SP yet other than the loki to sleipnir comparison are generally worse at brawling while retaining sig/speed disavantages a bc has over a cruiser. T3s are over powered atm, CCP has already chimed in on this and intends to address this by a combination of nerfs to t3s and buffs to hacs and commands.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-08-13 14:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


So, a ship requiring as much lvl5 skills as Strategic Cruisers should just be subpar of every T2 hull in whatever field ?


Then why do t3s generally out perform their racial field command ships? Command ships are bigger, slower, slower AND require more SP yet other than the loki to sleipnir comparison are generally worse at brawling while retaining sig/speed disavantages a bc has over a cruiser. T3s are over powered atm, CCP has already chimed in on this and intends to address this by a combination of nerfs to t3s and buffs to hacs and commands.



This has already been debated and over debated, some (2 in fact) T3 command subs make those better than Command ships, it's not a news flash and will be changed soon enough so there's no point on beating the same thing over and over and over again, nothing new will come out.
T3's are not OP, some people are still arguing how OP a 3billion fit ship is vs a simple T2/meta 4 specialised one can be witch is...silly as discussion.
Fix T1/T2 hulls with primordial bonus/capacitors whatever ship/gun stat then let's talk about T3's, but for the sake of a decent discussion CCP should already clearly state what are T3's vs other spec hulls.

Does versatility means weaker from your point of view?
What's the point spending time training for something 3x expensive than spec hull (for T2 fits), making you loose SP when you get killed, and requiring 5 sub skills on top of a lot of 5's to get the most out of it?
If it doesn't bring anything superior than T2 hull other than do the same thing but worst, more expensive and SP cost, then it's a failure/trolling/bad as design.

If you don't want to waste time training for those ships I can understand but why in hell because you don't want to, should those who spend that time training for be penalised or get nothing in change of that sup training time?

Edit: T3 command ship is not able to fit the same tank/dps/links the command ship does, I'm still waiting to see a 500K EHP Loki or Tengu witch will not happen tomorrow. And before everything else I'm all for to get rid of command subs and off grid boosting.

brb

Red zeon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-08-13 22:42:43 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Nicaragua wrote:
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.

I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.


so if T3 shouldn't be able to do what HAC does, what with tengu and cerberus?



dude, the tengu can suck to if u dont know how to fit one :P
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#18 - 2012-08-16 17:16:33 UTC
Red zeon wrote:
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Nicaragua wrote:
Proteus should not be able to field 5 heavy drones, thats the ishtars territory and no T3 should be able to do what a HAC does.

I know that this is not the current state of play but devs have already said that HAC's are the specialist ships and should therefore be the best at what they do. T3's are verstaile jack of all trades.


so if T3 shouldn't be able to do what HAC does, what with tengu and cerberus?



dude, the tengu can suck to if u dont know how to fit one :P


crappy tengu fit is still better than crappy cerberus fit.
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
#19 - 2012-08-16 17:41:30 UTC
ecm should sever the ships connection with its drones like what happened to the drone boats in Stargate Universe when Eli jammed their signal. If a drone ships sensors are jammed, so should its communication with its drones.
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#20 - 2012-08-16 18:56:51 UTC
Just my opinion, but the problem with certain drone ships is that there is a Huge gap between medium drones and Heavy/Sentry DronJust my opinion, but the problem with certain drone ships is that there is a Huge gap between medium drones and Heavy/Sentry Drones and drone sizes do no mix well. So basically, 50 bandwith thorugh 100 bandwith is pretty close in usefulness. at 125 bandwith, boom you are golden. This causes a really weird progression.

One fix might be to make heavies into "assualt" drones and make a smaller class using similar skills and a bandwith in the 15-20 range. YOu could also add light sentry drones with similar bandwith. This would give a place for the 'tweener drone boats, especially if for example you set "light"sentries at 15 m/b (so a Myrm could use 5) and the small assualts at 20 mb (so 5 drones at 100 bandwith), this would help differentiate the drone ships.es and drone sizes do no mix well. .

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