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Newbie ship cargo size problems make amarr cyno pilots useless, but only amarr.
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ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#1 - 2012-08-09 01:56:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Not sure if this is the right place.

So far.. Loving the patch and I am really excited about the newbie ships. I spend quite a bit of time flying around in newbie ships because I use them extensively as cyno alts. My favourite looking of the ships is the Impairor. Using a Micro Aux power core and cyno IV, you could fit a cyno and just enough fuel to light it. I can't express the joy I felt when I fitted a cyno on an Impairor and went to fit the power core and saw the cyno online. Complete nerdgasm.

However, I was somewhat disappointed to discover that I could no longer put 300 units of ozone in my cargo bay. I was dismayed when I realized that the Impairor was the only one of the newbie ships to have this disadvantage. As newbie ships are provided free, that means anyone who chooses Amarr for a cyno pilot is at a significant disadvantage to the other three races.

It is a minor point, but it is somewhat unbalanced.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#2 - 2012-08-09 02:15:27 UTC
I don't see what the problem is.

Rookie ships aren't intended as cyno ships, they're intended as rookie ships. Using a rookie ship for cynos is something players have done to minimize loss using throwaway alts.

Confirmed rookie ships are working as intended.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#3 - 2012-08-09 02:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I don't see what the problem is.

Rookie ships aren't intended as cyno ships, they're intended as rookie ships. Using a rookie ship for cynos is something players have done to minimize loss using throwaway alts.

Confirmed rookie ships are working as intended.


Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-08-09 03:32:45 UTC
Reduce all their cargo holds a touch so none of them can fit enough fuel.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#5 - 2012-08-09 04:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
Joelleaveek wrote:
Reduce all their cargo holds a touch so none of them can fit enough fuel.


Don't forget. This is common and widely used. It is probably the biggest reason the newbie ships get used in the game currently. It would effect quite a few people's game play. That should be considered as well. Giving the Impairor a little more cargo would be the simpler solution as it doesn't change the status quo.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#6 - 2012-08-09 05:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.

Give yourself a little more cargo room.

An Expanded Cargo Hold I increases the amount of ozone the Impairor can carry to 337 units.

Only 2000 ISK.

Such a HUGE DISADVANTAGE you have there. CCP needs to immediately stop development on everything else to address this enormous problem immediately.

This topic is either:
A) quite possibly the most weird, bizarre, out of left field thread in the Features section or
B) attempt at trolling.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-08-09 05:56:22 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Joelleaveek wrote:
Reduce all their cargo holds a touch so none of them can fit enough fuel.


Don't forget. This is common and widely used. It is probably the biggest reason the newbie ships get used in the game currently. It would effect quite a few people's game play. That should be considered as well. Giving the Impairor a little more cargo would be the simpler solution as it doesn't change the status quo.


I think it would be great, if you want to cyno somewhere regularly you would have to handle the logistics of getting ships out there that are capable of fitting a cyno in addition to getting the fuel there. Seems fair to me.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-09 06:07:16 UTC
Joelleaveek wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Joelleaveek wrote:
Reduce all their cargo holds a touch so none of them can fit enough fuel.


Don't forget. This is common and widely used. It is probably the biggest reason the newbie ships get used in the game currently. It would effect quite a few people's game play. That should be considered as well. Giving the Impairor a little more cargo would be the simpler solution as it doesn't change the status quo.


I think it would be great, if you want to cyno somewhere regularly you would have to handle the logistics of getting ships out there that are capable of fitting a cyno in addition to getting the fuel there. Seems fair to me.

You mean as opposed to what we already do which is get a ship out there that can handle a cyno? It does seem weird that CCP would arbitrarily give the amarr noobieship less cargo room. (if anything it's probably because of lasers)
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#9 - 2012-08-09 15:11:34 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.

Give yourself a little more cargo room.

An Expanded Cargo Hold I increases the amount of ozone the Impairor can carry to 337 units.

Only 2000 ISK.

Such a HUGE DISADVANTAGE you have there. CCP needs to immediately stop development on everything else to address this enormous problem immediately.

This topic is either:
A) quite possibly the most weird, bizarre, out of left field thread in the Features section or
B) attempt at trolling.


So why should Amarr pilots have to do this and every other race does not?
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#10 - 2012-08-09 15:19:57 UTC
The reduction of cargo would be best, and if you then want to use a cyno alt you at least have to skill the 12 h for Hull upgrades.

Proposal T2 BS Class Juggernaut
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2012-08-09 15:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.

Give yourself a little more cargo room.

An Expanded Cargo Hold I increases the amount of ozone the Impairor can carry to 337 units.

Only 2000 ISK.

Such a HUGE DISADVANTAGE you have there. CCP needs to immediately stop development on everything else to address this enormous problem immediately.

This topic is either:
A) quite possibly the most weird, bizarre, out of left field thread in the Features section or
B) attempt at trolling.


So why should Amarr pilots have to do this and every other race does not?


Because they are slavers....
Because they are a theocracy....
Because they are different than the other races...
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#12 - 2012-08-09 16:02:49 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.

Give yourself a little more cargo room.

An Expanded Cargo Hold I increases the amount of ozone the Impairor can carry to 337 units.

Only 2000 ISK.

Such a HUGE DISADVANTAGE you have there. CCP needs to immediately stop development on everything else to address this enormous problem immediately.

This topic is either:
A) quite possibly the most weird, bizarre, out of left field thread in the Features section or
B) attempt at trolling.


So why should Amarr pilots have to do this and every other race does not?


Because they are slavers....
Because they are a theocracy....
Because they are different than the other races...


increasing their cargo hold by a few m3 is hardly going to change those things. Please explain how putting Amarr players at a disadvantage when being used to cyno ships supports those story lines. In what way would being a Slaver effect your ability to cyno capitals? How would being a Theocracy effect it and different generally doesn't mean "at a disadvantage". What advantage in this respect do the Amarr get? This is a balance issue, not a story one.

It sounds more like you want to punish people who own capitals.
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-09 16:57:56 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I don't see what the problem is.

Rookie ships aren't intended as cyno ships, they're intended as rookie ships. Using a rookie ship for cynos is something players have done to minimize loss using throwaway alts.

Confirmed rookie ships are working as intended.


Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.


And if it can't be done, stop bitching and make a non-amarr cyno alt.

I swear, people find the dumbest things to complain about. Rookie ships are provided for free. If you were a beggar and a man handed you ten dollars, would you ask him for another ten?
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#14 - 2012-08-09 17:06:13 UTC
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I don't see what the problem is.

Rookie ships aren't intended as cyno ships, they're intended as rookie ships. Using a rookie ship for cynos is something players have done to minimize loss using throwaway alts.

Confirmed rookie ships are working as intended.


Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.


And if it can't be done, stop bitching and make a non-amarr cyno alt.

I swear, people find the dumbest things to complain about. Rookie ships are provided for free. If you were a beggar and a man handed you ten dollars, would you ask him for another ten?



So I should have to bio-mass three different accounts, including a leadership alt, then go through a month of retraining on each account just so I can fly the ship I could fly before this change? Once again, why should Amarr characters be forced to do this while Gallentee, Minmatar and Caldari characters don't?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#15 - 2012-08-09 17:13:48 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I don't see what the problem is.

Rookie ships aren't intended as cyno ships, they're intended as rookie ships. Using a rookie ship for cynos is something players have done to minimize loss using throwaway alts.

Confirmed rookie ships are working as intended.


Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.


And if it can't be done, stop bitching and make a non-amarr cyno alt.

I swear, people find the dumbest things to complain about. Rookie ships are provided for free. If you were a beggar and a man handed you ten dollars, would you ask him for another ten?



So I should have to bio-mass three different accounts, including a leadership alt, then go through a month of retraining on each account just so I can fly the ship I could fly before this change? Once again, why should Amarr characters be forced to do this while Gallentee, Minmatar and Caldari characters don't?


You can fly the same ships that you could before this change.
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-08-09 17:40:09 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
So I should have to bio-mass three different accounts, including a leadership alt, then go through a month of retraining on each account just so I can fly the ship I could fly before this change? Once again, why should Amarr characters be forced to do this while Gallentee, Minmatar and Caldari characters don't?


Nobody is forcing you to do any of that. Rookie ships aren't intended to be cyno ships. The difference in cargo is completely unrelated to the usage of liquid ozone for cynos. The fact that people are using rookie ships as cyno ships has NOTHING to do with the intended usage of rookie ships. It's just how things work.

If you're so poor that you can't afford to put your cyno alt in a T1 frigate, and so petty that you can't handle replacing a T1 frigate that gets blown up, maybe you should stop flying capital ships and find a new hobby.

Also, if all of your characters are Amarr, tough ****. The option is there. Either use it or suck it up and drive on.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#17 - 2012-08-09 17:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
deleted because CCP can't make a forum that actually works correctly.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#18 - 2012-08-09 17:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ps3ud0nym
deleted because CCP can't make a forum that actually works correctly.
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#19 - 2012-08-09 17:45:02 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Miss Furry wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I don't see what the problem is.

Rookie ships aren't intended as cyno ships, they're intended as rookie ships. Using a rookie ship for cynos is something players have done to minimize loss using throwaway alts.

Confirmed rookie ships are working as intended.


Then make them all have a cargo size that can't fit 300 ozone. The issue is balance. What they "intended" doesn't matter. EVE is a sandbox, if it can be done, it will be. I just don't think that one race should be at such a disadvantage.


And if it can't be done, stop bitching and make a non-amarr cyno alt.

I swear, people find the dumbest things to complain about. Rookie ships are provided for free. If you were a beggar and a man handed you ten dollars, would you ask him for another ten?



So I should have to bio-mass three different accounts, including a leadership alt, then go through a month of retraining on each account just so I can fly the ship I could fly before this change? Once again, why should Amarr characters be forced to do this while Gallentee, Minmatar and Caldari characters don't?


You can fly the same ships that you could before this change.


Nope. If I want to use my newbie ship to cyno, I now have to either buy a new non-newbie ship in region assuming anything is avalbile that character can fly, or I have to fly it through gates to the system I need (something that no one other than Amarr has to do) and then I have to find or bring an expanded cargo hold as well. ONLY Amarr has to do this. If you are are any other race, you don't have this disadvantage.

I keep asking but no one has come up with an answer. Why should Amarr players be penalized simply for being Amarr? After these changes you would have to be a moron to make an amarr character if you intended to use it for cynoing at all. I wouldn't have made ANY of my characters Amarr had this change been done previously. This isn't something that players can go back and change unless they bio mass their characters and waste the training time, and subscription money, they spend on the character. That means any Amarr player that wants to NOT be at a disadvantage has to pay both a monetary cost and a training time cost just to get back to a even footing on a character of a different race. That is hardly fair to Amarr players.
Miss Furry
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-08-09 17:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Furry
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Nope. If I want to use my newbie ship to cyno, I now have to either buy a new non-newbie ship in region assuming anything is avalbile that character can fly, or I have to fly it through gates to the system I need (something that no one other than Amarr has to do) and then I have to find or bring an expanded cargo hold as well. ONLY Amarr has to do this. If you are are any other race, you don't have this disadvantage.

I keep asking but no one has come up with an answer. Why should Amarr players be penalized simply for being Amarr? After these changes you would have to be a moron to make an amarr character if you intended to use it for cynoing at all. I wouldn't have made ANY of my characters Amarr had this change been done previously. This isn't something that players can go back and change unless they bio mass their characters and waste the training time, and subscription money, they spend on the character. That means any Amarr player that wants to NOT be at a disadvantage has to pay both a monetary cost and a training time cost just to get back to a even footing on a character of a different race. That is hardly fair to Amarr players.


You do realize you can fit a T1 expanded cargohold in the 2nd low slot and still use the impairor to cyno with, right? Since you have to go buy the LO and the cyno and the MAPC, I don't see why that would be an issue. Unless you didn't realize the Impairor has 2 low slots?


EDIT: I realize you pointed out the expanded cargo, but you don't seem to even realize you mentioned it, since it would take no additional effort, considering you have to go buy the other **** for it anyway......
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