Warfare & Tactics

So , after reading the CSM minutes (what i cared to read that wasnt Twostep being a ragey dumb ass.) I came across the ever so controversial topic of Offgrid links.

Now im a fan of offgrid boosting (Im a terribly spoiled Huginn pilot), but do i think its kinda OP ? Yeah. But the way the CSM/CCP is implying to fix offgrid boosting seems suprisingly stupid and uninformed. Mostly because it will give Huge scrubsec(nullsec) blobs a big advantage over the people who like to fly small gangs against the blobs, and their are allot Better ways we can fix offgrid boosting without nerfing it in such a stupid way. The simplest way i see to fix this is switch the bonus attributes on T3's to be what commandships have and vise versa. Even then this is kinda "Iffy".
In all honesty Offgrid links aren't to broken/game breaking. There are a few situations where they are completely dumb.
I.E Solo PvP with links (not really solo now is it?)
And links that sit inside a POS. <--- kinda risk averse.

Little Snip from kugu.which was snipped From PL.com
"Currentlу, оff-grid boosting does need fixing, however not in the way that you are probably thinking.

Оff-grіd boosting in safespots in space should not be changed. These people can be caught by probing them down‚ or slowlу bоokmarking your way to glory. I tihnk I have shown that it is possible with a decent investment (lg virtues) to catch off-grid boosting t3's. So I think that is fine.

However, boosting from a PОS іs completely safe. There is no risk whatsoever‚ and it is literallу impоssible to counter. All that for a mere 400mil/month and a setup PОS. It gіves the defender an incredible advantage and offers a strong incentive for the defender to never leave their home system. [...] I think that for someone to recieve gang bonuses, be it from a t3, a Titan, or even an industrial that the character who is boosting should be put at some risk of dying, ala boosting outside of a PОS.

So, I would propose that gang mods not be allowed to be run from іnside of a POS."

So, In-light of what my opinions are what do you guys think ? And if Dev's give a **** to post (Not like you guys play your own game anyways so your uninformed as hell.) what do they think ?

i am using offgrid links ... mostly cheap BC or CS with skirmish mindlink and maxed skills on my alt. Got caught 5 times in last 7 months (mostly because I was concentrating on FCing ;) ).

Our Loki boosters got caught once or twice .... however they cost about ten times more then my drakes or canes.

So I dont see the problem here. Problem it is for null blobers, because they dont like to be harrashed by smaller gangs buzzing around them with boosted speed and picking weak and careless (I like it this way) .... so again CCP is saying : "We dont care about mid/small scale pvp we want blobsters - because" .... well there has to be some compensation behind this ;)

Off grid boosting shouldnt work in a POS force field. That way there is at least a risk.

I'm in two minds, I don't like fighting people who are using 3 different sets of links, but I love scanning them down and killing them, and watching the tears in local.

It is not easy in the least to stick it to someone that doesn't want to be probed (sexual innuendo, best innuendo!) .. maxed skills, implants, CovOps and rigging just to be eligible .. then comes the actual probing part.

One problem with off-grid bonuses is that they force a very specific play as that CovOps is the only real counter to it .. a counter that is not "normally" found outside blob/fleet-fests (ie. low-sec/roams). Keeping status quo (or the stingy compromise of 'not in POS') and simply add even more mandatory 'alt required' mechanics ... more accounts, more dinero for CCP = good for game .. right?
Another problem with off-grid bonuses is the magnitude. With the correct hull, implant and modules you are looking at amplifying a given groups performance by 50%+ which is staggeringly OP .. particularly since you have just the one above mentioned counter. Consider that we pay millions, even billions, to get just a few percentage points advantage on our individual ships by using bling .. links provide more than 10x (probably closer to 20x) that across an entire fleet (Ex. one ship with just one link magically transforms all T2 disruptors in the entire fleet into RF disruptors .. that is before commandship/T3 hull specific bonuses are even applied mind you).
Yet another problem with off-grid bonuses is that they represent the most heinous of game design where one can influence events with no active participation, indeed without even being present.

CSM, being null-bears for the most part, are fully aware of the potential pitfalls of just moving them on-grid. Pretty sure there will be major changes/overhauls of both command's and T3's prior to or in conjunction with such a change .. they talk about ideas for changing both in the minutes as well by the way, let the lobbying begin!

My preferred solution is to make the bonuses range dependent to simulate the slight delay in C&C data. With a maximum range of say 400km, split into 5-6 range bands with bonuses decreasing the further away the links are from the action .. would be a massive server drain though as blob fights would force a bazillion calculations so 'meh' (I can live with on-grid and a maximum range (has to be included to account for Grid-fu scenarios)).

PS: Before the mining crowd finds this thread and starts moaning about not wanting to commit the Rorq to a belt .. get protection or use a regular command ship. The slightly lower bonuses still make your roids pop faster than not having bonuses at all.
PPS: When change is made, give Carriers (not the super variety) a small link bonus (already have fitting bonus) so that they can be used in blobby weather when/if commands fail to do the job.

I can't agree more. The response that people need to get an scanning alt to counter other peoples boosting alt is terrible. I hate dual boxing. Its pretty immersion breaking.

And before you say "get friends" Let me just say that anyone who wants to just scan on on their main without an alt must have brain damage. I will do it but its really boring and tedious play.

No off grid booster
No boosting from inside a pos
boosters show up on km.

This topic again? I'll give it the same reply i always do.

Remove the Command processor modules, almost every percieved abuse of- or malbalance in the system relate back to that one module. The module effectively handicap the ship that use it to do nothing but boost, while boost more.

I think alot of you ascribe more to the ability to stay off grid than what it has earnt. The problem is rather that doing so allow you to boost more, so people will explore those options well before they explore eligable alternatives. I don't mind that alts can carry out the role of a main, in part. I mind it, in case of boosting, when it has become more effective to use alts for it. Where alts will completely obscure the use of a main in the same role, and rear it's ugly head at other parts of the game (such as the market; look at mindlink pricing - it may have something to do with the decline of supply from L4, but it also have alot to do with demand, and risk-confident alts happily paying those sums while on-grid mains hesitate).

Remove that module and you will effectively cut the performance of exploitation (i mean it as cutting down rainforests, not as breaking rules) by a good two thirds, while positively directing the community toward on-grid use without removing the ability to run off-grid boosts for groups who lack manpower or utilize strategy that involve it.

In short, the problem is that off-grid boosting allow three times as many links on average thanks to the Command processor, not that it could exist as an option with equal boost performance but one less ship fullfilling additional roles on the grid. Prior to related issues, such as market splash-off, my groups always used to put at least some boosting on grid and utilize the benefit from the extra module slots you also get on grid.

Removing off-grid boosting completely, or swapping bonuses between CS and Tech III will, as other people put it: only reinforce existing trends and popular gameplay (ie., feed the blob). I'm keen on Tech III as focus and CS as blanket.

Remove Command processors (and seed mindlinks in the LP-stores) and you will endorse a balance between alts and mains as well as CS and Tech III, without once again massively disrupt balance between small- and large scale to kill off interaction between the two, and get less ships in space.

Haven't you fed the blob enough Ytterbium? Bubble changes, etc.

I do not think there is a problem with offgrid boosting. The problem is with unprobeable ships offgrid boosting like the Loki.

Miss, their boost amount is lower, they have larger sigs and no cloak or bubble interdiction.

Meanwhile Tech III will offer better boosts on fewer links and a more "covert" approach, letting (smaller-) more specialist gangs use their focused bonuses while larger groups more interested in just filling out the gaps use the clumsier option.

The only thing you need to adress then is wether we should allow links to flow through POS shield or not, assuming POS still have shields when CCP get around to adressing these issues (shields, CSM minutes etc.).

Once again, i don't see a problem in the fact that off-grid boosting exist - the problem is that it's an overblown superior option today.

Balance assumes within tolerable difference.