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CCP is going to punishing not so intelligent pilots for staying afk in anomalies?

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Frying Doom
#41 - 2012-08-09 13:20:03 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

Does not wash. By making this ruling they are admitting they made a mistake in how complexes work, and that needs to be changed. Either way they rule, they are saying they made a mistake.

team security has no business making these rulings, especially on the basis of "that is what our botting algorithms detected"

it's entirely legitimate game behavior, and people should not be punished for it: if CCP decides they don't want it then they need to change the complex

Well at least that is business as usual. People find an obvious bug in the game and use it to make as much money as they can.

CCP classes it as an exploit and people whine about it.

Nope EvE is the same as normal.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-08-09 13:20:04 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Is there any particular reason why a certain room in a certain complex even has to indefinitely spawn more BS rats? Seems to me like that's the problem, not people taking advantage of it.


telling people "stop abusing it while we fix this" as a stopgap measure is also a solution to the problem of a complex that indefinitely spawns BS rats

there is no indication this has been declared a bug or is in the process of being fixed

this is team security finding their algorithms are bugged and creating false positives and stating they're going to pretend they're not false positives and that's the end of that, because they are under the impression passive income is banned in eve (it is not)
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-08-09 13:21:18 UTC
Dearest CCP Sreegs,

Maybe if you don't want people to AFK in plexes and anomalies you should look at making your game's PVE encounters not so mind-numbingly boring.

Regards,

me.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-08-09 13:24:37 UTC
you know what i'm just not going to get trolled :v:

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-08-09 13:26:48 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
Sreegs posted:

Sreegs wrote:
It has come to our attention recently that there are pilots in New Eden engaging in AFK Complex farming. Specific examples of this include such activities as warping into a particular room in a complex, dropping sentry drones, then going to do your laundry or perhaps watch a 24 hour Lazytown marathon. As such our automated systems will continue to detect and institute administrative actions for this activity.


When a pilot in his carrier is staying 24h AFK in an empty plex, it will be a high likelihood that he is experiences a new pod, when he is back behind his PC. He made no substancial ISK, because he sleept or was called by a raging wife.

I don't want to be monitored all the time and fear for my accounts, because the game mechanics CCP designed aren't working as intended.

I'm staying behind the principle that automated tools are very bad, but this is punishing the common player.


  1. This is excessive monitoring of personal activity
  2. This doesn't makes a difference between automated tools and human activity.


When CCP is going this far, that a usual plex runner loses his accounts for choosing an effective method to shoot NPC, it will be bad for the customer relationship.


I highlighted the really funny part.

Do you REALLY think anything you do in EVE is private by any means?

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#46 - 2012-08-09 13:28:22 UTC
Well, if it's a carrier afk somewhere doing it I wish I knew of his location.

If it's in high sec and players aren't happy about it couldn't you use a 100mn stabber to bump it out of drone control range? I don't use sentries but if a bump will do it then I vote the scregs guy stays on true bots. Can't blame people for using sentries the way they were intended to be used just launch and rep. It's not those guys fault that after the buttons are cycling there's pretty much nothing else to do.

How about moving those plexes to low sec to solve this problem? Change the difficulty level or the mechanic so it won't respawn if someone is in the site? Improve the npc AI for them? Don't blame players blame the design.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#47 - 2012-08-09 13:28:51 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

Does not wash. By making this ruling they are admitting they made a mistake in how complexes work, and that needs to be changed. Either way they rule, they are saying they made a mistake.

team security has no business making these rulings, especially on the basis of "that is what our botting algorithms detected"

it's entirely legitimate game behavior, and people should not be punished for it: if CCP decides they don't want it then they need to change the complex

Im sure many many more people were involved in this decision than the security team. CCP decided it was not a desirable activity to have in the game, so until its changed, they are saying do not do it. Just like they did with the moon goo duplication bug, POS bowling, and several other game mechanics. CCP has also said they expect we will find ways to break the game. Once we do, they will fix it. But as that takes time we are told to stop doing it until CCP does the fix.

Other forms of "passive income":
Mining: Ends when the hold fills
Moon mining: Ends when the silo fills, or the POS runs out of fuel
PI: Longest run is 14 days
Data cores: Does not make ISK, it makes data cores (but CCP has said they want to remove this from the game).

PLEX farming: potentially goes on forever. (CCP has said they want to remove down time).

Its the AFK farming of a resource that renews itself without limit thats the difference here. All other forms of passive income either automatically end due to a game mechanic, or require player intervention to actually get ISK.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#48 - 2012-08-09 13:31:07 UTC
Homo Jesus wrote:
Well, if it's a carrier afk somewhere doing it I wish I knew of his location.

If it's in high sec and players aren't happy about it couldn't you use a 100mn stabber to bump it out of drone control range? I don't use sentries but if a bump will do it then I vote the scregs guy stays on true bots. Can't blame people for using sentries the way they were intended to be used just launch and rep. It's not those guys fault that after the buttons are cycling there's pretty much nothing else to do.

How about moving those plexes to low sec to solve this problem? Change the difficulty level or the mechanic so it won't respawn if someone is in the site? Improve the npc AI for them? Don't blame players blame the design.

Actually, just bump them out of remote rep range and the sentries will eventually all get targeted and die. Also if you are willing to lose a ship, neut the domi and cause it to get a cap crash, wait for the npcs to finish it off, then scoop the loot.

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EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-08-09 13:31:15 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

Im sure many many more people were involved in this decision than the security team..

I happen to know it was not: a person got tagged by the algorithm for doing this, petitioned, and got told to **** off even after he explained in detail how it worked and that no macros or the like were involved.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-08-09 13:32:54 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Sounds like you're up to something fishy, if you're not doing anything wrong what does it matter if someone is watching?


yup, everyone is a criminal, especially the ones opposing the system.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2012-08-09 13:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
seriously go read the minutes from the csm about team security, wherein they believe:

1)there has never ever been a false positive (except two from a database error)
2)that all people who protest innocence are like people in jail who protest innocence (note: many of these people in jail are actually innocent and that's demonstrated every day)

it's very clear this is not a team that's naturally self-reflective and open to contemplating if they got something wrong: their instinct is swaggering bravado that they couldn't possibly have made a mistake

here, it's resulting in redefining the results of the algorithm to be correct rather than contemplate that "the client literally not moving at all ever probably means no macro is involved"
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-08-09 13:37:27 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Actually, just bump them out of remote rep range and the sentries will eventually all get targeted and die. Also if you are willing to lose a ship, neut the domi and cause it to get a cap crash, wait for the npcs to finish it off, then scoop the loot.


"keep at range" works while AFK

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-08-09 13:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:


I highlighted the really funny part.

Do you REALLY think anything you do in EVE is private by any means?


It's relative.

If I go to the nude beach, I can't really expect to keep anything "private". But if someone goes and flops down behind me with a magnifying lens and starts looking up between my legs, I'll have a thing or two to say about it. Even if I have nothing to hide. Most sane people would.

EvilweaselSA wrote:
2)that all people who protest innocence are like people in jail who protest innocence (note: many of these people in jail are actually innocent and that's demonstrated every day)


The funny part in this, if funny is the right word to use, is that AT THE TIME of the conviction (usually before DNA evidence was widely used), all available evidence usually suggested people were guilty. Which says a lot about your point #1. Currently, evidence available to CCP says these people were all guilty. Years down the line we might discover the method was wrong or flawed and a lot of innocents suffered. Remember, just 500 years ago everyone KNEW the earth was flat. It was a FACT, baby. And yet...
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#54 - 2012-08-09 13:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
Vincent Athena wrote:
Homo Jesus wrote:
Well, if it's a carrier afk somewhere doing it I wish I knew of his location.

If it's in high sec and players aren't happy about it couldn't you use a 100mn stabber to bump it out of drone control range? I don't use sentries but if a bump will do it then I vote the scregs guy stays on true bots. Can't blame people for using sentries the way they were intended to be used just launch and rep. It's not those guys fault that after the buttons are cycling there's pretty much nothing else to do.

How about moving those plexes to low sec to solve this problem? Change the difficulty level or the mechanic so it won't respawn if someone is in the site? Improve the npc AI for them? Don't blame players blame the design.

Actually, just bump them out of remote rep range and the sentries will eventually all get targeted and die. Also if you are willing to lose a ship, neut the domi and cause it to get a cap crash, wait for the npcs to finish it off, then scoop the loot.



Now I'm really confused because that sounds like afking in them is just dangerous anywhere. What does this algorythm or whatever detect?..that sentries and eve pve are brainless activity?

Maybe require a webcam to play eve so if the camera doesn't detect movement every 15minutes you're automatically logged out? What if someone is just chillin in one smokin a doobie and decides to take a weed nap in the comfy chair is that banable? If so I'm in deep sh!t.


...and I don't know about keep at range while afk a good bumper will send that thing flying.
Frying Doom
#55 - 2012-08-09 13:43:14 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
seriously go read the minutes from the csm about team security, wherein they believe:

1)there has never ever been a false positive (except two from a database error)
2)that all people who protest innocence are like people in jail who protest innocence (note: many of these people in jail are actually innocent and that's demonstrated every day)

it's very clear this is not a team that's naturally self-reflective and open to contemplating if they got something wrong: their instinct is swaggering bravado that they couldn't possibly have made a mistake

here, it's resulting in redefining the results of the algorithm to be correct rather than contemplate that "the client literally not moving at all ever probably means no macro is involved"

Actually given how low they have set the bar for bot detection, with only 2 data base errors and many thousands of bots eradicated, they are probably justified in there swagger that people they catch are most likely guilty.

But the expression about people protesting their innocence in jail is very much hundreds of guilty people and 1 or 2 innocent people all protesting their innocence. It is hard to weed out the innocent.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
BigSako
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-08-09 13:54:33 UTC
this just proves who little some guys at CCP play EvE Online and need to make ISK.
Going AFK for 5-15 minutes in a drone boat to finish a complex or a mission or other things is how Gallente Pilots make isk.

If you're speaking about STATIC SITES that never actually despawn, either remove them (or make them respawn), or just let the sandbox handle it... Make players aware of their locations and you'll have them perma camped by a lot of players.
And in highsec you'll have people go in machariels and just bump away the ships and have great lulz when they go offgrid.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-08-09 13:56:10 UTC
I'll stop AFK plexing, IF you wipe the autopilot function.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-08-09 13:56:26 UTC
Kisumii wrote:
They are just asking you not to go AFK. Why pay for the game if you arent going to play it?


CCP might then consider creating content that doesnt make you go afk.

The PVE part of this game is garbage.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#59 - 2012-08-09 13:59:23 UTC
Lol Humour.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#60 - 2012-08-09 14:01:33 UTC
What's all the fuss about?

1. Being able to make risk-free ISK while afk for long periods is bad.

2. Apparently it is possible to do this.

That constitutes a problem. The fix is: Make it impossible to do this. That's what they want to do, and until they do it, they declare this unwanted activity an exploit and prohibit it.

See, CCP is doing its work, improving the game. Now move along please, nothing to see here.

.