Jita Park Speakers Corner

I agree, it just means that me as a "middle class" can suddenly not justify spending the money at all making it only a luxury item.

This is the very simple problem with your need to do things this way.

It is unavoidable and unacceptable.

By "Super Rich" you ARE Talking about the people who have controlled moons for years, and/or the people who have taken advantage of various other issues with the game which have been ongoing for years and have hundreds of billions of isk right ?

So your "fix" is to make t2 ships 10% more?

Seriously ? against hundreds of billions?

This just makes the ship suddenly harder for me to buy and only really accessible to those people.

I don't understand what you're trying to achieve with a tax that effects everyone.

No not really If you have been able to buy a T2 ship in that last 4 months you can afford one with the 10% on it now alot easier.

Please define what you consider as middle class?

Look, it's a bad idea in pursuit of a good goal. Just accept that you need to come up with something better, because this one's not going to fly.

Well I have around 4b in cash, a Rorqual, a hulk a few other ships, a POS, maybe another 10-15b in bpo's (dead money)..

I don't consider myself rich in a game where people have control of trillions...

If you want to target that kind of money, you need to think in ways other than ships, and more to do with what people with hundreds of billions or trillions are spending money on.

This would only make it harder on combat people.

No, the main argument has been that you started this whole thing on a completely broken premise, the idea that T2 ships and capital ships are just toys for the rich, when in reality they have a far more widespread use across all manner of Eve players. Their prices range from the single millions well into the billions - ANYONE can afford a T2 ship. Taxing them is taxing the entire game.

Also your capital changes would do nothing more than punish small groups trying to build themselves up, while most alliances will just keep doing what they do now - building their own cap fleet in-house.

Oh, I'll have to correct this. Seems some of the inties like the Claw or the Crusader have risen above that 10mil mark (just barely in the Claw's case). Either way, the point stands. Drastic price ranges, covers all hull classes, etc etc etc.



Again: you can repeat this as much as you like, that doesn't make it any less false. Some of the richest people in the game may not even set foot into ships at all, let alone an abundance of T2 ships.



They shouldn't have to pay anything. That's the point that keeps zooming above your head.



Capital ships aren't the domain of newbies, absolutely, but they're not by definition the domain of the rich, either. You called Revolution Rising's 4bil liquid & various other assets "middle class", yet he could buy and fit both a Carrier and Dread with his liquid isk alone, and that's at our current "lowends blown sky high" prices.

You might have had a point with Supercaps exclusively, but since they can never dock, they can't be traded on any kind of in-game system which means your system has 0 effect.

Which will not affect them at all since, as you said, your idea has the 10% sell cost passed on to the customer. Even if your mechanism didn't have that, you can damn well better believe every ship that had this would have a 10% cost increase.



And without your stupid, stupid idea they'd pay 10% less than if your stupid, stupid idea was a reality.



Just because it won't be a hindrance in once specific case doesn't mean the idea is a good one. Quite the opposite in this case.

Anyway, this is going in circles, so here's some questions to *hopefully* distract you from just making even more nonsensical arguments that have nothing to do with anything:

- How much isk would your 10% tax on T2 ships and capital ships remove from the game? Clearly you've given this idea a lot of thought, so how much isk would come out? You don't need an exact number obviously, but ballpark it (and let us know how you arrived at said ballpark)

- How did you determine that T2 ships and capitals are being predominantly purchased by rich players?

- What is "rich"? At what point does someone cease to be not rich and become rich? In fact, you might as well just lay out the entire Eve class structure for us, since I'm betting this is far from your last stupid, stupid idea and it might be better to just get this in writing now.

Yes they would but yes it would effect people who trade it will be passed on to the customer but you would want to make sure that there was profit left as you will have to pay the tax when you re-sell the item and some markets do not have that great a margin. Also every time they are re-sold in the chain the isk sink would suck more down.


Yes they would and they would pay a lot less than the CFC cost players with OTEC.



Just because it won't be a hindrance in once specific case doesn't mean the idea is a good one. Quite the opposite in this case.

Anyway, this is going in circles, so here's some questions to *hopefully* distract you from just making even more nonsensical arguments that have nothing to do with anything:

How much isk would your 10% tax on T2 ships and capital ships remove from the game? Clearly you've given this idea a lot of thought, so how much isk would come out?

How did you determine that T2 ships and capitals are being predominantly purchased by rich players?

What is "rich"? At what point does someone cease to be not rich and become rich? In fact, you might as well just lay out the entire Eve class structure for us, since I'm betting this is far from your last stupid, stupid idea and it might be better to just get this in writing now.[/quote]
T2 ships and capitals are being purchased by the rich because a poor character could not afford one, so the CFC made that an easy answer.

As the trade figures are scattered and not easy to access especially when you include contracts but with the removal of the tech crisis and prices dropping for all T2 ships I would anticipate approximately 8,339,844,444 isk per day or 750,586,000,000 per quarter. I had to use old figures for T2 as these are prior to the Tech crisis. The amounts of T2 ships now in production is presumably higher than this subsequently the sink would be larger.
As to the amount for capital ships I am unable to find public record of the number of capitals built. Strangely I can for super caps but not for caps.

So compared to the current isk sinks in this game this one would probably only create an an extra 8-10% on the current sinks in use, possibly more depending on capital sales.

This would form a tax only on those who use T2 ships and capitals without effecting new players or the poor of EvE's community.

The more you spend on T2 ships and capitals the more you would have to pay and as I have previously said the large alliances with T2 and capital replacement programs would pay the most unless they built them in-house.

So to quickly summarize Snow Axes problem with the tax.

Its OK for the CFC to put 100% on to T2 ships via OTEC for the benefit of those alliances but it is NOT OK to put a 10% tax on T2 ships for the benefit of the Game.

Have you seen the price of tech now?

How does this effect a specific game play style? If you mine and use a hulk you pay the tax, if you pvp in T2 you pay the tax, If you carry crap around in a freighter you pay the tax. If you are new and fly a rifter you dont pay the tax.

"CCP Dr.EyjoG expressed his awareness of concerns about inflation, and that it might price T1 ships and components out of the reach of younger players."