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What is the point of using Tech 3 in Nullsec fleet fights?
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Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#21 - 2012-08-06 14:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Mechael wrote:
Because there is way, way too much ISK in EVE these days.


Most any alliance could easily set up operations to produce their own T3s. Isk has little to do with it.


Er ... you do realize that the minerals that you mine are not free? The moment you mine up your first unit of fullerines you've just added one unit of fullerine's worth of ISK to your net worth. ISK, like all money, is just an expression of value. That's also why it's always better to buy your materials via buy orders than it is to mine them up yourself if you want to build as efficiently as possible. You can always buy them more cheaply than you can sell them.

Your alliance can produce its own fleet of 500 tengus from scratch? Congratulations. Your alliance is space-rich, and pretty silly for not just selling the raw materials. Odds are you could have got at least 550 tengus from the ISK difference between buy and sell orders (usually somewhere in the 10% ballpark for popular items, even more for less popular ones.)

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-08-06 23:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Our coalition is currently engaged in a small series of ‘negotiations’ in and around various NC. interests.
Often there are a number of different fleet types running simultaneously and it seems that people are pretty universally of the opinion that the well-run tengu-fleet is just plain awesome. The bring-ship-home rate is very high for the tengu, whereas the way-cheaper drakes tend to suffer much higher loss rates, and most of the pilots seem to be raving about the force-projection that tengu offer … backed by our usual awesome logi efforts ofc.

OP suggests that “In large fights, unless you are flying in a supercapital ship, you will almost always be instantly killed by the alpha strike of the enemy fleet" which is not the whole story. Sure a big enough alpha fleet can blap most anything, but a well constituted and supported fleet of tengu do a great job of killing others and tend to bring a lot more ships home ... even after encounters with high alpha and high DPS fleets. Fleet tengu are relatively small (AB), moving (less damage applied), moderately well local tanked, high resistance, and very amenable to the remote tanking that the support scimi fleet offers.

Sure tengu are not inexpensive cruisers to buy and fit, but it’s way cheaper to bring your tengu home than it is to have your drake or maelstrom converted to space-dust. I doubt you're going to see tengu fleet disappear for a while yet ... they work!

p.s. I don’t know that it’s a great example of a tengu-fleet in use, or of a particularly ‘fair’ fight, but http://gents.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14243569 shows that they are in use … bigtime, and not entirely unsupported. Look at all those tengu … oh, and the capitals and huggs :-)

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Katalci
Kismesis
#23 - 2012-08-09 07:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
10MN AB Tengus, "Thundercats", are an improved cross between the Fist of gRape and Drake swarms. They have the speed and EHP of Abaddons but tiny signature radii, incredible resistances, and awesome damage projection out to 120km.
Lokis and Proteuses are excellent brick-tanked tackle, far more survivable than recons.
When not coward-fit, armor T3s excel at clearing hostile tacklers and other small ships. Legions can even lock and kill bombers before their bombs hit, eliminating their damage entirely.

Also, -A- is **** so don't use them as an example.

drdxie wrote:
You need to look at how many Tengu's are actually lost during these fleet battles. AAA has had some good results with them.. Guess it depends on the FC....

(makalu has lost 20 subsystem skills lmao)
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#24 - 2012-08-09 07:22:09 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Mechael wrote:
Because there is way, way too much ISK in EVE these days.

The amount of isk something costs adjusts with inflation and deflation as currency is a simple placeholder for: labor and commodities. How much isk is in the economy has no effect on the ability of most people to purchase a ship as buying power changes with inflation.

tl;dr the amount of isk that exists has no large effect on the amount of commodities (e.g. minerals) that exist


The only problem with that line of thought is that some things have a fixed ISK price. Few examples, mission rewards, NPC bounties, LP store, sovereignty bills. Therefore if the value of ISK was to drop 10x, sure, a Drake would still cost roughly as much as the materials needed to make the Drake, but it would take you 10 times longer to run missions to afford the Drake. Conversely, compared to the cost of holding sov, you could afford to lose ten times less Drakes.


there is still one problem, miners could not sell their minerals fast enough and eventually drake price will drop 10x cheaper too.

Minerals do not cost much to mine, it takes only time.
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