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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 Feedback

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Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#141 - 2012-08-09 00:38:22 UTC
Great changes Lol Really nice updates for market window, and the best thing is that deadspace signatures do not decloak our ships anymore.

The tooltips are too big and intrusive, but I could probably get used to it. Now that an option to delay them is already in the works it's fine though.

Nitinol wrote:
This is an unacceptable, and condescending response. Normal user's don't care about the structure of your data tables or whether a row's key has changed.

What I care about, and what James Selkirk cares about, is that you have changed the purpose of a core skill. If you had changed the gunnery skill to affect mining there would be riots in Jita again. Just because the impact is smaller, does not make the error trivial.

I want the SP back for the skill I trained, which no longer exists. period.

You're complaining about a rank 2 skill nobody ever trained higher than level IV. We are talking about 90k SP here. Bitching about that is ridiculous. If "re-using" the skill for something else saved a few hours of dev time, it was definitely the right call to do it this way.

.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#142 - 2012-08-09 00:43:40 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Penny Ibramovic wrote:
Context menus for bookmarks are obscured by site labels in the system map still.

When a site is visited, a convenient label is created pointing to the site in the system map. This would be more convenient if the label didn't then prevent any interaction with the site and bookmark within the system map by not allowing the context menu to display. Any attempts to right-click on the bookmark, or even just hover over the bookmark to get the tooltip for additional information, fails. This makes it next to impossible to distinguish one similarly named anomaly with another, even if bookmarks are made with specific details.

The same behaviour prevents easy recognition of wormholes. One unstable wormhole is the same as another unstable wormhole, going by the system labels, but it's important to know which one your target is sitting on. Without the tooltip, or the context menu to get you in to warp there, all the convenience of the label is lost.

Living and scanning in w-space on almost a daily basis is frustrating with this bug. More so because it continues not to be addressed.

Post from 31 May 12

Post from 24 June 12


Have you filed a bug report on this?

I don't know if Penny did, but the issue was brought forward many times by many people in threads where devs were writing and some of the reporting players stated they had filed bug reports. This is something that once worked and was broken about a year ago. It's really quite annoying.

To be frank, at the time this was broken there were new small broken UI things with every patch. Since none of them ever got fixed, people eventually gave up on it, I guess. At least I did.

.
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2012-08-09 02:18:39 UTC
I posted this in the predeployment thread:

Quote:
Can we get an option for Veteran tool-tips.

Instead of the name of the weapon, and all the pretty pictures I would rather have.


Just:

10000/13000 0.03125

60% EM 40% TH

For example on a random laser. Tells me optimal. Optimal + Falloff x1. Tracking in rad/sec. Then percentage of damage done by ammo type.

The info is all I need to know on the fly to use in conjunction with the overview to determine who to shoot first. Without making the game just straight tell me.


Along with the option not to have them which people are asking for.
Retromash
Gradient
Electus Matari
#144 - 2012-08-09 03:10:46 UTC
Big Frackin Tooltip On My Modules.

Ability to switch off.

NOW.
Toostonedtokill
Majenica Inc
#145 - 2012-08-09 03:12:42 UTC
I'm not sure if it's an oversight or if i just can't see it.
but it appears that there isn't an Ore Hold shortcut button in the Fittings tab like there is for cargo and drone bay.
Nitinol
Flat Earth Believers
#146 - 2012-08-09 03:58:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitinol
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Great changes Lol Really nice updates for market window, and the best thing is that deadspace signatures do not decloak our ships anymore.

The tooltips are too big and intrusive, but I could probably get used to it. Now that an option to delay them is already in the works it's fine though.

Nitinol wrote:
This is an unacceptable, and condescending response. Normal user's don't care about the structure of your data tables or whether a row's key has changed.

What I care about, and what James Selkirk cares about, is that you have changed the purpose of a core skill. If you had changed the gunnery skill to affect mining there would be riots in Jita again. Just because the impact is smaller, does not make the error trivial.

I want the SP back for the skill I trained, which no longer exists. period.

You're complaining about a rank 2 skill nobody ever trained higher than level IV. We are talking about 90k SP here. Bitching about that is ridiculous. If "re-using" the skill for something else saved a few hours of dev time, it was definitely the right call to do it this way.


Where is the line, where this becomes unacceptable? If they threw away 1mil of your SP would be upset? 10mil? There shouldn't be a distinction. The skill rank or quantity of SP involved is not the point. The point is that they removed a skill and did not return the SP - which they have done for every case I can think of. If you only trained 90k into learning, you would have got that back... not had it replaced with an unrelated skill.

I wouldn't even had sounded off on it, if I didn't spot the dev's inconsiderate response. I weighed in as a matter of principle.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#147 - 2012-08-09 04:27:11 UTC
Teibor wrote:
how do i turn off the description which appears everytime i hover over a module when in space?

....cant find anything via the ESC menu to do it.



At the least we need a switch to turn it off on non-optimal type modules (I pretty much know the name of my cloaking device by now). Need a switch to hide it on these type of modules, sort of like the hide passive module switch.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#148 - 2012-08-09 04:31:54 UTC
James Selkirk wrote:
Rapid patch deployment: check Smile
Client patched cleanly: check Smile
Patch works: check Smile

"Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations. The old effect of segregating corporations by races is gone, so all corporations can have all races, always. The skill now reduces the cost to hire allies in war. The skill will not be reimbursed as it is not being removed, but changed." (Italics added)

So, Ethnic Relations has a changed name and a changed function, yet somehow this does not count as removing a skill and adding a whole different skill. Because I trained Ethnic Relations to have a multicultural corporation, not to hire allies in wars I'm not about to get into.

Please keep all comments on topic and non offensive.
-ISD Dorrim Barstorlode


Said best. Probably endorse his censored remarks as well.

Seriously - did this propose change get published before commit? Did the CSM buy off on it (even though I have no respect for CSM, even they would have said SOMETHING)?
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#149 - 2012-08-09 04:33:44 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
James Selkirk wrote:
Rapid patch deployment: check Smile
Client patched cleanly: check Smile
Patch works: check Smile

"Ethnic Relations skill changed into Diplomatic Relations. The old effect of segregating corporations by races is gone, so all corporations can have all races, always. The skill now reduces the cost to hire allies in war. The skill will not be reimbursed as it is not being removed, but changed." (Italics added)

So, Ethnic Relations has a changed name and a changed function, yet somehow this does not count as removing a skill and adding a whole different skill. Because I trained Ethnic Relations to have a multicultural corporation, not to hire allies in wars I'm not about to get into.


From a technical perspective, it's the same type with the same internal ID number. To count as removing a skill and adding a whole different skill - again, from a technical perspective - it'd mean deleting the old skill and adding a new one with a different ID.



Wow - really? Technically? CCP run out of numbers to describe a NEW skill???
Muffin Cups
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-08-09 04:36:22 UTC
Hello. I created a new char and took notes about the NPE. Hope this feedback helps. My toon is Min/Sebiestor bloodline.

Tutorial #1
Ohh green callout to Agent tab is sexy! And I can drag the tutorial window and it's always on top!

#2
Step 3 of 4 (closing windows) points a callout to Mission Journal.

However I've already removed Mission Journal from my neocom.

The callout reasonably points to the E button at the top of the Neocom but it still says 'This is your Mission Journal.'

#6 Ship Movement
'Activate the acceleration gate'

Why not mention holding D and clicking gate on overview works?

I read in a dev blog that you downplayed keyboard shortcuts / binds. Combined with good overview presets binds are REALLY handy for piloting.

#9
WTF?

Step 2 said:
Quote:
Skills need to be trained. This converts them from an item in the world into information in your head. Once a skill is in your head, you'll never lose it.


...EXCEPT IF YOU GET PODKILLED IN AN INSUFFICIENT CLONE.

That is IMPORTANT and imo you should drill it into people's heads to keep clones updated, starting here in the tutorial! see notes on #23.

I already closed Inventory button, callout pointed to E button again. That's a sane default and of course very few will start by tweaking their neocom.

#14
Destroy the fuel depot.

What fuel depot? *overview tab All* Oh I didnt actually activate the gate yet... hit gate...

Nice in space callout and green overview background, as long as overview isnt scrolled away

'You need to target and destroy this fuel depot.' OK how do I target. Right click Fuel Depot and select lock target.

Please point out that you can select on overview as well as brackets in space. And that control click is bound to target.

Guess I'm a shortcut whore.

And come to think of it it's a lot faster to press F1 than to click my guns.

Wow nice explosion. I was zoomed in far and it filled a lot of the screen. I usually am zoomed out 100km so explosions suck most of the time.

#16
step 2
Fit my new shield booster? Awesome.

I still want key binds. How about this? Set a tooltip to show 'ALT F' when you mouse over the appropriate green text in tutorial prompts.

AW ****! I can't even fit this shield booster wth?

'You are required to have learned the following skills: Shield Operation.'

Oh right I forgot to actually start my skill training when you told me to. I injected instead of train to 1. Balls! You let me keep going without actually starting training! Guess I will wait 8 minutes. My bad.

#18: Interstellar Travel
Screenshot says Location: Shesha.
My screen says Location: Edmalbrurdus.

wtf? should i go to shesha?

obv different toons go to different stations. imo change the system name in the screenshot to ?????? - that should be clear enough.

step 2:
"locate a stargate. their bracket looks like this" - move the icon to end of 2nd paragraph.

BTW if you don't say 'look in your overview for a stargate' you're gonna have ppl panning around in space looking for brackets and getting frustrated.

Maybe a convenient time to point out that stargates are at the top of overview sorted by icon.

#19: Inside the Academy
'Look at the ships' you could put a tooltip here for 'alt-click'

I look at the Minmatar Service Outpost LCO, a quafe logo catches my eye, I look closer. Jeez this is ugly. It looks like, idk the side view of a shopping mall, when I'm looking at the glowy textures. Sorry, as noob i'd expect giant space station to look sweet.

#20: The Mission Journal has the same issue as 18. the screenshot shows one out of many possible noob systems. again i suggest changing screenshotted destination to ??????.

step 3: Great, you address some of the overview stuff. I already had to scroll before to find the gate. You might wanna explain sorting columns before saying "because it's a long way away, [the stargate will] be down near the bottom of the list."

#22:
Aura wrote:
To reach your destination, you will need to cross several solar systems. Because you've set a destination, you can activate your Autopilot. This will automatically warp your ship to the destination stargates and jump you through them. Autopilot warps are less accurate so this will lengthen your journey time, but it allows you to work on other things while you travel


you're missing a period at the end there. also. dont waste the characters. tell them straight out, 'autopilot warps land 15km from the gate, and you can manually warp to 0km, so the autopilot takes longer.'

#23:
Aura wrote:
Be aware that unless you have invested in a high-grade clone, you will lose a percentage of skill points based on the quality of the clone you have and how many skills you have. At some point during this week, you will want to click on the Medical button on your station interface and upgrade your clone.


Change to:
Quote:
Low grade clones remember fewer skill points than high grade clones. If a pilot's pod is destroyed, and his clone is insufficient, he LOSES SKILL POINTS. Never fly with a clone grade less than your total SP! You can upgrade clones at Medical services in many stations.


Back in station - nice, a callout for Medical service! As long as that tutorial page is still open.

By the end of the tutorial my eyes are hurting. I'm staring at fairly small text on a 24" monitor. I really wish I could use a bigger font in the tutorial window (and this EVE Notepad window too.)

#24
One final suggestion:
last page of tutorial says in green 'Fly safe, capsuleer.'

Personal request to any devs who these notes help: change it to 'Fly safe, capsuleer. o7'
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#151 - 2012-08-09 04:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
CCP Fear wrote:
Regarding the module tool-tip:

We will be adding an option to disable them and possibly a delay as well in a patch very very soon! (Can't say specific dates yet I'm afraid)


Two options -
1) Turn off non-changing modules (MWD's, Cloak, hardners, etc)
2) Turn off all tips.

Does a delay really make sense? In the heat of the battle do we really want to be waiting on delays?

BTW, I really do like the tips on my offensive weapons - big help.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#152 - 2012-08-09 04:44:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MajorSheppard wrote:
i'm a little bit pissed right now.

The next time you change materials of a production please mention that in the patch notes and bring the patche notes up some days before the patch so ppl can plan their production accordingly.

I hope this will be better with the upcoming patches.
Whenever they make these kinds of drastic changes, it's always a good idea to check in on sisi in the days before the patch. The numbers have been available there for a while now.


Sisi is CCP's new patch release notes platform? That's news!
mkint
#153 - 2012-08-09 06:13:05 UTC
regarding uni.inv:

-The open in new window option is nice, except it's a pain in the ass to find, even if you know it exists. Players will never consider inventory windows to be "primary" and "secondary" like devs are hoping, and if you try to force it you'll just **** people off.

still uni.inv related but not about new stuff:
-inventory windows have so much wasted space. at least a 3rd of every inventory window I have is completely wasted space showing crap that's NOT inventory, and 9 of 10 times is not even remotely useful. Why do I need a search filter when opening a wreck? Why is the area with the icon sizes options almost entirely empty 100% of the time? Monitor real estate is already at a premium in EVE. None of the gimmicks using that real estate are valuable enough to take up that real estate 100% of the time.
-the double-click-ship-boards-ship functionality still bugs me... I can't speak for everyone else, but a ship is as much a container as it is a ship. Especially for ships that are nothing but a container with engines attached. I'm not saying the old system was ideal, but the current system is just as bad, if not worse for certain work-flow processes. It seems like a quick workaround would be allowing shift-double-click on a ship to open it's cargo, though it's still not ideal. At least until the uni.inv can be thrown out and started over with an eye to efficient workflow.

I still find it odd how such a functionality breaking "feature" that caused so much fallout got so little iteration. I'm still lost about what value it actually adds to the client. Come on, you can do better than this... a little toggle switch isn't a whole patch-cycle's worth of work. I'd have liked to comment more about what changed, except hardly anything did (though what did is admittedly nice.)

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#154 - 2012-08-09 06:13:40 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Sisi is CCP's new patch release notes platform? That's news!
No, but if you suspect that a secondary set of stats might have changed due to a large update to some particular item, sisi will probably give you better answers and details than the patch notes even if the thing is included in those notes.

Yes, they probably should have noted that the build requirements will change as part of the revamp, but even if they did, they wouldn't have listed all the BP information and people would have had to go and look for themselves if they wanted the details (or just keep an eye on the market and industry forums).
AshenShugar01
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2012-08-09 06:39:43 UTC
good god, the module tool tip..... whats the point of that?

Click on Afterburner - "This is an afterburner"
Click on Cloaking Device - "this is a cloaking device"
Click on Warfare link - "this is a warfare link"

Work of real genius that, its great to be reminded ALL THE TIME what module you are turning on, epsecially when the modules are completely benign, on guns maybe especially for new players but come on really? Do we need it for EVERY SINGLE MODULE?

We are not WOW players, we do not need EVE spoon fed to us. Why release this feature without an option to turn it off? You had to know that most existing players will just be annoyed at it rather then grateful for the 'help'....Ugh
Adria Eqviis
The Study of Wumbology
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#156 - 2012-08-09 06:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Adria Eqviis
Where'd the T2 resists on Exhumers go? Did I miss something? Skiff/Mack/Hulk all have 0/50/40/20 on the shield, didn't they have something like 0/50/85/60*** before, as in Gallente T2 resists? I distinctly remember putting an EM mod on to get a viable omnitank...

(did try to search before asking, didn't find anything, my apologies if I missed it somewhere...)

-Adria

*** EDIT: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk still lists the old shield resists at 37.5/65/62.5/50
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#157 - 2012-08-09 06:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Adria Eqviis wrote:
Where'd the T2 resists on Exhumers go?
They are just no longer included in the base stats on the info sheet.

Before, you had that 7.5% bonus per level in a skill that you had to have at lvl V to fly the ship, so they just included the total 37.5% in the base stats for the resists (most clearly shown by the 37.5% EM shield resist) because why not bake it into the stats since it will always be that high since you could not possibly be in the ship if the skill was lower?

After the patch, you only get 5% bonus, and they chose not to bake it into the stats like that. You still get that 25% bonus, but it will be calculated “properly” every time.

In a sense, it's better this way, since the old info sheet kind of suggested that you'd get another 37.5% bonus on top of what looked like 37.5% base resist, when in fact the two were the same. That implied (but not actual) duplication is now gone.
Adria Eqviis
The Study of Wumbology
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#158 - 2012-08-09 06:50:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Adria Eqviis wrote:
Where'd the T2 resists on Exhumers go?
They are just no longer included in the base stats on the info sheet.

Before, you had that 7.5% bonus per level in a skill that you had to have at lvl V to fly the ship, so they just included the total 37.5% in the base stats for the resists (most clearly shown by the 37.5% EM shield resist) because why not bake it into the stats since it will always be that high since you could not possibly be in the ship if the skill was lower?

After the patch, you only get 5% bonus, and they chose not to bake it into the stats like that. You still get that 25% bonus, but it will be calculated “properly” every time.

In a sense, it's better this way, since the old info sheet kind of suggested that you'd get another 37.5% bonus on top of what looked like 37.5% base resist, when in fact the two were the same. That implied (but not actual) duplication is now gone.


Ah, you're right, thanks. They never had "T2 resists" as such and that was just the bonus pre-calculated into the attributes.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#159 - 2012-08-09 06:52:08 UTC
Adria Eqviis wrote:
Ah, you're right, thanks. They never had "T2 resists" as such and that was just the bonus pre-calculated into the attributes.
Much more succinct way of saying it. I'll steal that one for the next time someone asks. Lol
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#160 - 2012-08-09 07:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Untouchable Heart
Layla Ravensclaw wrote:
thats new patch is a big crap, cus its support players that play on multiaccounts not players thats have one account.
The best exaple is the Hulk.
Ok ist have more ehp ,But the full boni get you only with orca support.
That means to me that i skill 3 month for nothing ( skilling the hulk) and througth 280 millions out off the windowX
My former 17 k Hulk is now an overpriced Procuerer!
Thats is the badest Patch ever in eve!



Yup. Again the cosmetical changes. The unified inventory still a big ****. The most ridiculous thing the "ship rebalance" what they delayed, remember for http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129 blog .
The 4 frigate rebalance changes could a realy big and hard work what is possible to change in their ship editor within 30 seconds.
Well done.