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UPdatedCcpLookPLS Why does FW reward those who lose or flee from fights in Plexes? Faction Warfare
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#21 - 2012-08-08 07:30:01 UTC
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-08-08 07:34:34 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:


The winner of the plex has to run down the normal time plus the time the loser of the plex gained on it. This seems to promote less fights than more to me. I would like to at least see the winner of the plex take over the timer, whatever that maybe to capture or secure it.

Please look at ways to make faction warfare actual warfare than just farmville. This change would actually make people consider defending the plex instead of just leaving it. Reward the person who fights not the person who loses or flees.

We all know the current plex system has many flaws. Do not get me wrong. It is a lot better than what we had before.


Going off of the most common plexing situation I see, where I am in a major solo and a WT warps in on me... what possible "win" do I get by staying and fighting for my plex inside it?

If you are in a major you would not want to fend off the WT coming in. Even in a PvP fit ship which people do have in them, defending it is near impossible since the defender has the aggro of the NPC's. Why would anyone in their right mind sit inside a plex with room aggro and try and fight off an aggressor???? Point+Web and you die from NPC damage.

I personally like the new system. Anyone that takes a second to analyze what is happening will see that like most things there seems to be a continuing flipping of control. Yes Min had control for awhile, now it is swinging to the Amarr for a time. Eventually after systems are flipped and Amarr cash out, farmers offensive plexing will take the systems back to Min since we will not defensively plex most the systems either. Basically if you are not impatient and plan accordingly we should all be able to refill our wallets every few months and have great fights.

It's a game, blow some stuff up.
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#23 - 2012-08-08 10:35:43 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:


The winner of the plex has to run down the normal time plus the time the loser of the plex gained on it. This seems to promote less fights than more to me. I would like to at least see the winner of the plex take over the timer, whatever that maybe to capture or secure it.

Please look at ways to make faction warfare actual warfare than just farmville. This change would actually make people consider defending the plex instead of just leaving it. Reward the person who fights not the person who loses or flees.

We all know the current plex system has many flaws. Do not get me wrong. It is a lot better than what we had before.



Fighting a hopeless fight just to gain time is a very valid and important aspect in any war in history of mankind. Cannot see why this would be bad at ALL here.


What I think FW needs is 2 types of system. Normal and CORE systems. THe normal systems cpturign coudl work as they work now. THe core systems would need a FULLY PVP oriented operation to take over and woudl yield MUCH greater rewards.

That would keep both type of players relatively satisfied.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#24 - 2012-08-08 13:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
Bienator II wrote:


amarr have like 4 systems which can be easily defended.. and around 50 systems which are vulnerable and ready to flip.

why? because this forces minies into the most boring game mechanic eve has to offer: defensive plexing. And guess what.. they are not doing it, thats why all those vulnerable systems will stick there forever till they are flipped.

defending home systems is fun, but i was not talking about home systems. (you will have to defend home systems even if there would be automatic recovery in place)


So it seems like the whole war zone exchanging hands is working perfectly. Keep in mind Minmatar has had the ability to LP to t5 from day 1.

Now people are unhappy that it's not going to stay like that forever?

Caldari militia dumped to T5 and T4 very recently (T4 recently for "whothef*ckunderstandsthatlogic" reasoning).

Gallente militia dumped to T4 as well (maybe T5 I don't know for sure).

If the systems are vulnerable, so be it.

In fact, f*ck it. I like the fact that a system can go into infinite vulnerability because let the militias decide when they want to swap control.

If you don't like the big red bar on your screen then defensive plex.

as i said nobody does. Those systems are farmed with pve alts without facing any resistance. (in our case, amarr is farming since minies are not decontesting)

this simple fact has many consequences:
- a lot of farmers recently joined amarr militia
- those are totally avoiding any risks, e.g offensive progress stoped entirely since everybody is orbiting in vulnerable systems
- pvp is basically reduced to the core fleets which fight once or twice a day, since nobody is really flying pvp ships to plex - there is no need for that

Dan Carter Murray wrote:

Also regarding "the most boring game mechanic eve has to offer": WHY THE F*CK DIDN'T PEOPLE GO FIGHT THE WTs CONTESTING THE SYSTEMS THEN?


cause high traffic systems are contested via fleets, those are where fun things happen. (e.g no minie soloes a plex in kourmonen these days) 95% of the remaining space is pve farming where people use empty frigs with 2 day alts to orbit flags. I am talking about the 95% you seem keep talking about the 5%

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
SeaSaw
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-08-08 14:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: SeaSaw
Good Sirs;

I rarely play this game, I just log in to refill my skill queue. I joined faction warfare and I am a minmatar with a rifter in the Hek system. How do I figure out where the fight is?

I read this thread and don't understand most of it. Here are some lines that perhaps someone would explain to me:

QUOTE

Keep in mind Minmatar has had the ability to LP to t5 from day 1.

If you are in a major you would not want to fend off the WT coming in.

Vlillirier was a perfect example the past week of how the system was designed to work in my opinion. It was absolute warfare.


END QUOTE

the most important thing I would like to know is how do I know I should go to Vlillirier for faction warfare?

yours
SeaSaw
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#26 - 2012-08-08 14:07:13 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).

It really is this easy.
Lilly Tebron
Unknown Entity.
#27 - 2012-08-08 14:32:59 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Super Chair wrote:
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).

It really is this easy.


^^ This
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#28 - 2012-08-08 14:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Super Chair wrote:
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).


+ no lp payout for plexing in vulnerable systems

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#29 - 2012-08-08 14:56:00 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:


The winner of the plex has to run down the normal time plus the time the loser of the plex gained on it. This seems to promote less fights than more to me. I would like to at least see the winner of the plex take over the timer, whatever that maybe to capture or secure it.

Please look at ways to make faction warfare actual warfare than just farmville. This change would actually make people consider defending the plex instead of just leaving it. Reward the person who fights not the person who loses or flees.

We all know the current plex system has many flaws. Do not get me wrong. It is a lot better than what we had before.


current plexing is so easy and profitable so people make new alt accounts and farm more.

So CCP is not going to nerf it beacuse tehy get so much more $$$.

No one lose on plex grinding, everyone are winners.
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#30 - 2012-08-08 16:12:20 UTC
David Campbell wrote:
Shepard Book wrote:
David Campbell wrote:
I can see a lot of defensive plexing alts farming timers in their own space without being shot at by npc or militiamen and once they are pretty much done, the enemy main character comes in and cash-in on the LP.

Nice farming system you got there...
Last I checked faction warfare was supposed to be about PvP not Pve.


If your system were to be implemented, that is what I see happening. Easier LP farming by 1 day old alts that don't even need to train a single skill. Please, enlighten me, how is this PvP ?


What you say about farming alts is true as well. I agree that needs to be changed too.

What I am saying is they should not penalize the person who gains controls of the plex ( by making them run both timers) but instead reward who has taken it over ( let them finish the timer and get the credit) because they either killed those inside first or made them run.


Almost any system out there can be exploited. That is CCPs job to fix and enforceRoll it.
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#31 - 2012-08-08 16:15:49 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Super Chair wrote:
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).


+ no lp payout for plexing in vulnerable systems


I like this idea too. Letting someone just pile on top of a vulnerable system to infinity is crazy to me. Basically we have systems that will never be flipped back to defender because its so easy for farmers to just keep it going. Until someone wants to cash out the defender is stuck.
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#32 - 2012-08-08 16:19:51 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
The only changes plexing needs are :

1) If timer is untouched for a period of time, it will eventually reset to a "neutral" state. This is so that farmers, who just warp out and move onto another system to farm are not rewarded because since they ran away they have to start over.

2) Kill all npcs as a prerequisite to capture offensive plexers (INB4 whiners saying "OMG DONT FORCE PVE ON US BY FORCING US TO KILL NPCS!", tough sh*t, the real pvpers looking for fights kill them so NPCs don't interfere with the fight. The fact is you want to farm, not fight because you'd be killing npcs if you were in a plex looking for fights).


I would be happy with these changes instead too. In fact, its going in OP.
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