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Incursion bias

Author
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#1 - 2012-08-08 13:46:37 UTC
Would it be too much to ask that Incursions hit all 4 empires equally rather than to make it completely random, to prevent that amarr gets most of the incursions because it is simply the largest empire?

This would mean that people who are at bad standings with Amarr don't get blocked from doing by far most Incursions.
Wetwater
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-08-08 14:19:15 UTC
One should be punished for not treating Amarr with respect!
stoicfaux
#3 - 2012-08-08 14:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
The Cialis effect eh?

If you experience an incursion lasting more than four hours...

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#4 - 2012-08-08 14:36:54 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
The Cialis effect eh?

If you experience an incursion lasting more than four hours...


I don't follow, what do you mean?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#5 - 2012-08-08 14:49:27 UTC
Why should incursions hit every empire equally when one empire holds more space than others?

In Eve, decisions have consequences. The decision to tank your Amarr standing has a consequence. It might not be a consequence that you meant to have, but ignorance of the law is no defense. Besides, incursions have been going on for over a year, it doesn't take that long to grind standings back up if you really want to.
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#6 - 2012-08-08 15:25:46 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Why should incursions hit every empire equally when one empire holds more space than others?

In Eve, decisions have consequences. The decision to tank your Amarr standing has a consequence. It might not be a consequence that you meant to have, but ignorance of the law is no defense. Besides, incursions have been going on for over a year, it doesn't take that long to grind standings back up if you really want to.


I look at it from a game design perspective, not a real-world logic perspective:

In order for everyone to enjoy this content, a somewhat large portion of the playerbase is forced to go through different content that they might not at all like, in order to get the appropriate standings with Amarr.
Also, from what I understand, part of the reason for Incursions to be made was to give players an alternative to mission grinding that would involve more player interaction than missions do. Would it make sense that for people to get to that feature, they would have to first go through the feature that Incursions was designed to be an alternative for?
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#7 - 2012-08-08 15:50:28 UTC
Pissing off the biggest empire in eve has to have SOME consequences
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#8 - 2012-08-08 16:04:35 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Pissing off the biggest empire in eve has to have SOME consequences


I agree, but if you want to preserve gameplay diversity, perhaps the way to adress the problem is that doing Incursions is a way of increasing your standings with the 4 empires, since Kuvakei is an enemy of all empires equally. This way game diversity isn't sacrificed for the sake of consequence.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#9 - 2012-08-08 18:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
I recall in the first few months after they started there was a strech of 14+ Amarr HI SEC Incursion spawns in a row... I ended up doing the data center tag trick soon afterwards. Seems that the spawns had been mre spread out the past few months but the past week week & a half been Amarr centered.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#10 - 2012-08-08 18:16:46 UTC
Aynen wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Pissing off the biggest empire in eve has to have SOME consequences


I agree, but if you want to preserve gameplay diversity, perhaps the way to adress the problem is that doing Incursions is a way of increasing your standings with the 4 empires, since Kuvakei is an enemy of all empires equally. This way game diversity isn't sacrificed for the sake of consequence.


Except that then there's yet one more reason to do incursions over any other content as it's an automagic love button to empire factions. And lots of people would value that in and of itself.

Seriously, if you want to run empire incursions across all four empires, just get your standings up. You just have to not be KoS, and derived standings won't take you down that far. If you've already passed that point, data center agent yourself up in an afternoon and continue with impunity.

And if you just want to run incursions, there's plenty of low sec out there....
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#11 - 2012-08-08 20:42:57 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:


Except that then there's yet one more reason to do incursions over any other content as it's an automagic love button to empire factions. And lots of people would value that in and of itself.

Seriously, if you want to run empire incursions across all four empires, just get your standings up. You just have to not be KoS, and derived standings won't take you down that far. If you've already passed that point, data center agent yourself up in an afternoon and continue with impunity.

And if you just want to run incursions, there's plenty of low sec out there....



Personally, I'd see incursions, missions, pvp and mining and the other major activities in Eve as idealy equally valid ways of playing the game, meaning they should each cover income and difficulty across all ranges. This way the choice isn't 'what's the fastest way to make money?' but rather, 'which way of making money do I enjoy the most?'.
Incursions being as popular as they are currently isn't just based on how fun the feature is, it's based also on how fast a source of income it is, which in turn is based on it's expected difficulty when it was designed. So under the current design, you'd be right, incursions can 'overrule' the other features somewhat. But letting Incursions increase your standings for the empires isn't the cause of it.
Sturmwolke
#12 - 2012-08-08 22:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
No. Just no. Again ... NO.

Once upon a time, CCP in its infinite wisdom did just this. They spawn rotated between the 4 empires like clockwork. If you run incursion regularly, moving around in a wide circle will take its toll in the amount of time you waste carting your ships and anything else. Dear god, when it spawns in Minmatar space, you can almost hear a collective moan as people dread the (long) trip.

The "standings" argument hold no water, especially when you look at some of the other features like faction warfare. From a game design perspective, choice that has an impact is preferable to bland homogeneity, hands down. A choice which has no consequence is meaningless. Your choice is simple, don't screw up Amarr standings ..... nor any of the other empires if you want to run incursion anywhere. Infact, the requirement is a hell a lot lower than faction warfare ... all you need to do is stop at -5 to avoid from being KOS from the faction. Really? It's that difficult?
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-08-08 22:59:50 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
No. Just no. Again ... NO.

Once upon a time, CCP in its infinite wisdom did just this. They spawn rotated between the 4 empires like clockwork. If you run incursion regularly, moving around in a wide circle will take its toll in the amount of time you waste carting your ships and anything else. Dear god, when it spawns in Minmatar space, you can almost hear a collective moan as people dread the (long) trip.

The "standings" argument hold no water, especially when you look at some of the other features like faction warfare. From a game design perspective, choice that has an impact is preferable to bland homogeneity, hands down. A choice which has no consequence is meaningless. Your choice is simple, don't screw up Amarr standings ..... nor any of the other empires if you want to run incursion anywhere. Infact, the requirement is a hell a lot lower than faction warfare ... all you need to do is stop at -5 to avoid from being KOS from the faction. Really? It's that difficult?


um...so wait a second. Your saying that having bad standings, which is easy to get if you do some missions, and not being able to enter a certain region of space is not a good reason to have that same content in other regions?

While your argument for not moving them is....


you have to fly a long ways to get there?


From a game design perspective, choice that has an impact is preferable to bland homogeneity, hands down. A choice which has no consequence is meaningless. Your choice is simple, don't screw up Amarr standings autopilot or htfu and fly your ship to where the content is you want to run.






Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-08-08 23:32:18 UTC
Aynen wrote:
So under the current design, you'd be right, incursions can 'overrule' the other features somewhat. But letting Incursions increase your standings for the empires isn't the cause of it.


No, it would be one more, wholly unneeded cause of it.

You're clearly not keeping your Amarr standing artificially low for RP purposes or whatever, so just go increase them. There are lots of ways. And then? Problem solved, no change needed.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-08-09 00:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
deal with it.

edit: are you space santa? you look like space santa.

I should buy an Ishtar.

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#16 - 2012-08-09 00:18:02 UTC
I seem to recall CCP Affinity was mentioning in the CSM minutes an idea that doing Incursions sites in a certain Empire will improve your faction status in that Empire. Actually that is sort of happining in the Overwelmed Civilian Facilities sites that improve your Sisters of Eve faction status becauseyou are helping escaping civilians.
Would be interesting to see what happens in NPC NULL ( are there ever any Incursions in Sansha space? I recall there was once one in Jove space )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#17 - 2012-08-09 00:39:46 UTC
Aynen wrote:
Would it be too much to ask that Incursions hit all 4 empires equally rather than to make it completely random, to prevent that amarr gets most of the incursions because it is simply the largest empire?

This would mean that people who are at bad standings with Amarr don't get blocked from doing by far most Incursions.


You are not "blocked" from running incursions, faction navies can hardly stop a warship from running through their space (unless you try AP). Not to mention CCP has made it significantly easier to regain standings, as opposed to the days you couldn't run any missions once your faction standing reached -5.0, at least now you always have lvl 1's available.

I remember the days of going 42 jumps to Khanid agents so that one of my characters would not get shot at on the way to Jita. Instead now, I closely watch my faction standings, mixing in diverse agents when needed to prevent limiting myself.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be asking for boosts with all 4 factions for anyone that shoots incursion sansha's (since according to EvE lore, the 4 factions originally banded together to (almost) wipe out sansha's in the first place).
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#18 - 2012-08-09 01:36:36 UTC
Veryez wrote:


If I were in your shoes, I'd be asking for boosts with all 4 factions for anyone that shoots incursion sansha's (since according to EvE lore, the 4 factions originally banded together to (almost) wipe out sansha's in the first place).



As of my second-to-last post, we agree
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#19 - 2012-08-09 11:37:31 UTC
Aynen wrote:
Would it be too much to ask that Incursions hit all 4 empires equally rather than to make it completely random, to prevent that amarr gets most of the incursions because it is simply the largest empire?

This would mean that people who are at bad standings with Amarr don't get blocked from doing by far most Incursions.


Numbers are hard aren't they?
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-08-09 12:53:36 UTC
You could just fix your standings and be done with it... there is a plan for it floating about somewhere

...

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