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Lexmana
#401 - 2012-08-08 08:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Biomass MeNOW wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP.


Incorrect.

World of Tanks is about PvP
Counterstrike is about PvP (and hacks)
Modern Warfare is about PvP

Those games have zero industry, zero manufacturing, no grinding PvE content to buy the next gee-gaw. They're about PvP, solely and nothing else.

Eve is about every thing else, and PvP. The PvP just happens to be a side junket for the few and the bloodthirsty... I should know, I have played eve for 9 years now and for many of those I was a hardcore PvP junkie.

As PvP became less about cat and mouse and more about hiding until you had overwhelming force, station games, bubbles, and any of the dozens of PvP eliminating features I looked into other aspects of the game.

Because, why? They're there because Eve isn't solely a PvP game.

Until Eve became more of a second job than a game. That's when I hung up my hat.

Now I've put down my scram and my web and chill doing exploration or manufacturing with my dozens of T2 BPOs; or go play any of a host of real PvP games when the invariable wardec comes along.

You are not seeing the forest for all the trees. PvP in EVE is much more complex than your standrad FPS. PvP in EVE is not just about combat but also about all those activities needed to support combat and warfare.That is what makes EVE PvP unique.

Yes even missioning can be a crucial part of PvP because the one that bring in the most ISK will also be able to spend more time on the battlefield with stronger ships helping to win the war. The corp with a strong mining wing will have access to minerals to produce ships and modules for their ship replacement program. Tech moons is basically a PVE source that major wars are fought over and market alliances such as OTEC ar formed around.

Just like in RL wars are not only fought and won on the battlefield. That is EVE PvP!
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#402 - 2012-08-08 08:57:45 UTC
Been reading 20 pages now, quite a read~
Sorry to see you go OP Sad
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#403 - 2012-08-08 08:58:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Personally I don't see ganking as a profession unless payed by a 3rd party. Ganking someone should cost you money.


You realise that ganking haulers with 100s of millions onboard is insanely profitable, right?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#404 - 2012-08-08 09:33:54 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I actually feel colonizing sov 0.0 should provide the same far west "unknown lands" feeling.
Maybe make delayed local until you gain sov and anchor something? That something could grant say 2-3 manufacturing slots so it'd also entice people to live in those systems.


I like this idea! There should be some sort of infrastructure to provide the local communication channel. Nice!

.
Doddy
Excidium.
#405 - 2012-08-08 10:43:16 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Give me your stuff before you leave.

Seriously though, get over it. People play games as ENTERTAINMENT, something FUN to do. Not to get griefed. What? I should play something else then? No. I want to play a science fiction game, and people like YOU aren't going to ruin it for me. The wallet of the carebears has spoken. Deal with it.


if your idea of "fun" is watching your mining lasers hit a rock, well, have fun


>implying anyone who doesn't PvP mines.

Like I said before, get over it. If I want to explore low sec with probes, go into wormholes, engage in industry or trade in lowsec, or even rat or do missions to relax, I shouldn't have to deal with griefers all the time. I play this science fiction game for FUN, not life.


Why shouldn't you? They are just doing what they want just like you. I guess a sandbox is only a sandbox if only you are allowed to play in it huh?
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#406 - 2012-08-08 10:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryss Darkdust
Deise Koraka wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:


But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP. And until CCP fixes that, it's not worth subbing. Such a waste.


That's funny, I've been on EvE for a while now, and never PvP'ed once.

I think what you meant to say was:

"But that's not what Eve is about for me. Eve for me, is about PVP. And until CCP caters to what I want, it's not worth subbing. No one will miss me."


BINGO

Any gamer who talks in absolutes when refering to a game and what its about hasn't got a clue, in particular in a game like Eve which is so diverse its absurd to assume that its only about one thing. I understand where the poster is going, but his voice is the polar oppossite of "they blew up my hulk, I quit until they fix suicide ganking".

Frankly, the less players we have like that the better, from both sides of the fence.

If there is a definitive thing Eve is about, than its about adapting to opertunities.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Doddy
Excidium.
#407 - 2012-08-08 11:00:29 UTC
Biomass MeNOW wrote:


As PvP became less about cat and mouse and more about hiding until you had overwhelming force


Interested to know exactly what you think "cat and mouse" means since that is basically the stupidest statement in a very stupid thread.

In any case Eve is all about pvp. Without pvp there would be no economy to reward people for their pve nor a need for sci and industry. Everything would be essentially worthless and people would only do things for the enjoyment of doing them. As eve's pve content is very lacking in depth and variation (as it was designed basically to fund people buying ships for pvp and so is very easy to min/max) no one would enjoy doing them for long. As it stands the vast majority of pve in eve is funded by pvp.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#408 - 2012-08-08 11:02:44 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Biomass MeNOW wrote:


As PvP became less about cat and mouse and more about hiding until you had overwhelming force


Interested to know exactly what you think "cat and mouse" means since that is basically the stupidest statement in a very stupid thread.

In any case Eve is all about pvp. Without pvp there would be no economy to reward people for their pve nor a need for sci and industry. Everything would be essentially worthless and people would only do things for the enjoyment of doing them. As eve's pve content is very lacking in depth and variation (as it was designed basically to fund people buying ships for pvp and so is very easy to min/max) no one would enjoy doing them for long. As it stands the vast majority of pve in eve is funded by pvp.


Really and where would you get your ships if industrial characters werent mining the resources and manufacuring them for you? Or is it like your moms house where you wake up and your laundry is done presumably by the laundry fairy? You are utterly clueless.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Nevermore Akiga
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#409 - 2012-08-08 11:09:09 UTC
The pvp and navigation mechanism is so limited that no human being is smart enough to reverse the tide in the foreseeable future.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#410 - 2012-08-08 11:12:56 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Really and where would you get your ships if industrial characters werent mining the resources and manufacuring them for you?
You're assuming that industrial characters aren't engaging in PvP…

…and even then, you're forgetting the other part: what would those industrial and miner characters do with the stuff they create if there was no market for it? They're not being picked up by the buying fairy…
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#411 - 2012-08-08 11:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryss Darkdust
Tippia wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Really and where would you get your ships if industrial characters werent mining the resources and manufacuring them for you?
You're assuming that industrial characters aren't engaging in PvP…

…and even then, you're forgetting the other part: what would those industrial and miner characters do with the stuff they create if there was no market for it? They're not being picked up by the buying fairy…


My point is that the existance of one is only possible by the other. And no Im not assuming industrial characters don't PvP, I do it, Im sure others do as well. But one is physically no possible without the other, to claim otherwise can only mean that you cant grasp the most basic of concepts about how this game works.

Come on Tipia, your pretty smart, I think your splitting hairs now, you know what Im talking about. Eve is not just or all about PvP, thats a stupid thing to post.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Lexmana
#412 - 2012-08-08 11:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Biomass MeNOW wrote:


As PvP became less about cat and mouse and more about hiding until you had overwhelming force


Interested to know exactly what you think "cat and mouse" means since that is basically the stupidest statement in a very stupid thread.

In any case Eve is all about pvp. Without pvp there would be no economy to reward people for their pve nor a need for sci and industry. Everything would be essentially worthless and people would only do things for the enjoyment of doing them. As eve's pve content is very lacking in depth and variation (as it was designed basically to fund people buying ships for pvp and so is very easy to min/max) no one would enjoy doing them for long. As it stands the vast majority of pve in eve is funded by pvp.


Really and where would you get your ships if industrial characters werent mining the resources and manufacuring them for you? Or is it like your moms house where you wake up and your laundry is done presumably by the laundry fairy? You are utterly clueless.

Haha. Good luck being industrial character in EVE if there was no PvP. Who would buy your ships?

Quote:
I am utterly clueless.

Fixed that for you.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#413 - 2012-08-08 11:26:52 UTC
Quote:
ha. Good luck being a PVP character in EVE if there was no Industrial Characters. Where would buy your ships?


Fixed it back for ya.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#414 - 2012-08-08 11:29:05 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
My point is that the existance of one is only possible by the other.
…and that is pretty much what he said too. Your objection makes it sound like you're saying that this is not the case and that the game would be lost without the non-combat pilots. I can admit to having jumped the gun a bit, but that particular argument comes up so often and is so ridiculously wrong every time it does that it's become a reflex by now.

In reality, you could lose every last one of the self-proclaimed non-PvPers and the game would go on just fine because the PvPers would just pick up the slack (whereas the opposite wouldn't be true since the “non-PvPers”, by their very nature, refuse to fill in that obligatory third part of the game). CCP might think it's no longer worth it and shut its doors, but the game itself would still work.

Quote:
Come on Tipia, your pretty smart, I think your splitting hairs now, you know what Im talking about. Eve is not just or all about PvP, thats a stupid thing to post.
No, it's really not. EVE is all about PvP. Combat PvP generates demand on the PvP market which is then supplied by the PvP industry sector. Call it splitting hairs if you like — I call it being precise: the game is not all about combat (but massive amounts of combat is an absolute requirement for the game to work), but it is all about player-vs-player in its many many forms.
Lexmana
#415 - 2012-08-08 11:29:34 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Quote:
ha. Good luck being a PVP character in EVE if there was no Industrial Characters. Where would buy your ships?


Fixed it back for ya.

Industry IS PvP. See the logic?
Frying Doom
#416 - 2012-08-08 11:31:02 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Personally I don't see ganking as a profession unless payed by a 3rd party. Ganking someone should cost you money.


You realize that ganking haulers with 100s of millions on board is insanely profitable, right?

You failed to quote the bit where I said based on the pilots paranoia. If they are idiots they are unguarded if they are paranoid it would be an unprofitable gank. As you would fail to kill the freighter.

So as I said it should be unprofitable unless the gankee is an idiot.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#417 - 2012-08-08 11:34:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Really and where would you get your ships if industrial characters werent mining the resources and manufacuring them for you?
You're assuming that industrial characters aren't engaging in PvP…

…and even then, you're forgetting the other part: what would those industrial and miner characters do with the stuff they create if there was no market for it? They're not being picked up by the buying fairy…

Selling to the PvE guys who would loose ships or other miners both of who with no-pvp could easily go into the insane anoms of null and WH space freely.

So yes a market exists without PvPers.

PvPers do not exist in this game without miners and Traders.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#418 - 2012-08-08 11:35:41 UTC
EVE is all about industry, there wouldn't be any ships without it!

Sounds pretty stupid right?

. . .

EVE is all about PVP, what else would the ships be used for?

JUST. AS. STUPID.
Doddy
Excidium.
#419 - 2012-08-08 11:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Biomass MeNOW wrote:


As PvP became less about cat and mouse and more about hiding until you had overwhelming force


Interested to know exactly what you think "cat and mouse" means since that is basically the stupidest statement in a very stupid thread.

In any case Eve is all about pvp. Without pvp there would be no economy to reward people for their pve nor a need for sci and industry. Everything would be essentially worthless and people would only do things for the enjoyment of doing them. As eve's pve content is very lacking in depth and variation (as it was designed basically to fund people buying ships for pvp and so is very easy to min/max) no one would enjoy doing them for long. As it stands the vast majority of pve in eve is funded by pvp.


Really and where would you get your ships if industrial characters werent mining the resources and manufacuring them for you? Or is it like your moms house where you wake up and your laundry is done presumably by the laundry fairy? You are utterly clueless.



No you are clueless. The vast majority of pvpers do pve regularly. There is no pve content in this game I have not done at some point or other, including mining. I have 3 dedicated industrial chars. In eve pve and pvp are entirely entwined. The issue is the players who only play one way and expect the game to adjust to suit them. While there are some pvpers amongst them the vast majority are pve orientated.
Lexmana
#420 - 2012-08-08 11:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Rented wrote:
EVE is all about industry, there wouldn't be any ships without it!

Sounds pretty stupid right?

. . .

EVE is all about PVP, what else would the ships be used for?

JUST. AS. STUPID.

You don't get it do you?

Mining ore in a belt in competition with other miners trying to avoid gankers and thiefs hauling the ore to a station avoiding gakers where there are free factory slots and ideally a cheap office producing ships finding somewhere to sell ships at a good price is all done in competition with other players - hence it is PvP.

Add to that wardecing your competition, hiring mercs to gank their miners and haulers so they move from your space and it is even more obvious.

Now, you may also undercut their orders and fill all factory slots an buy up all the offices at the station to make them leave your market alone.

How cannot you se that it is all about players competing with players - what we usually call PvP?