Wormholes

Right now we have very little solid information, and even CCP's reasoning behind the changes is officially under NDA. That means we don't even know what they consider problems to be fixed, much less how they propose fixing them. It's hard to be constructive when we're that in the dark.

I'd prefer more of a spacedock design instead of an actual station you fly into. this would allow d-scan to pick up active (online) ships at the pos. Now sense its going to be a modular design you add a module that adds x number of docking bays to the pos and the number of bays controls how many people can be docked at the pos at one time. Then you just say that docked ships are protected by the spacedock's shields and now we have docking but d-scan still shows players who are at the pos




Example, except extend the bay sides to past the end of the ship and pretend the station itself is bigger. so you have this big station with large dry-docks sticking out the side of it

^this is also an excellent point.
many WH groups have 20+ POSs in their system.
what's going to happen if you put up 20 deathstars on the same grid? will be impossible to take out with anything you can field in a WH.
definitely needs limits.

as for the basic question: what changes do we actually need?
TBH, the only things I can come up with are personal ship and mod storage and scalability from a personal POS to an alliance level POS.
that's it as far as my list goes.
T3 sub refitting also needs to be there.
none of those things need any sort of docking or 'mooring' crap.


PS: also, having smaller POSs harder to take out then larger POSs is on the same intelligence level as incarna.

I quite like Wolfreigns idea of a docking platform type of thing, could be something like a mooring system, as he said, use the modular system to be able to allow more ships to be moored alongside, but put a cap on it, this should be easily achievable using powergrid/cpu constrictions on the mooring module, it has the advantage of the ships being visible from outside (by cloaky ship or on d-scan) and pilots can see out, but if they are gonna get rid of the FF then they have to come up with something that does a similar job to the FF

I think the problem for CCP is that WH dwellers are pretty unique in the way they utilise POS's compared to the rest of the Eve universe, now I know that some Null entities "endure" the hardship of living out of a POS, but generally that's only when they are on "deployment" in a staging system, and it's generally short lived, there are also the few intrepid explorers who will live out of a POS in "hostile" areas for a few weeks, but only in WH's have the inhabitants used the "outposts" as they were possibly intended and live in them full time in the farthest reaches of space. Maybe CCP don't just have to look at POS's, but also look at what they can do for the WH dwellers without interfering with the fundamentals of WH life, we live here because we don't like docking games, null sec politics, blobs etc, so don't bring it to us.

As for jonnykefka asking about what do we want POS's to do, well not much really, fitting and repackaging seems to be a popular theme, not a long list of demands, but there seems to be a stronger voice saying, don't bring docking games to WH's, and that voice seems to be growing, so I hope Two step reads this thread, takes note and passes it on to CCP, though I won't hold my breath on them getting it right.

Not this ... WH's are supposed to be dangerous unknowns.. next thing someone is going to ask to have populated because intel is important..

I can't think of anything you could do to prevent docking games on a pos that wouldn't mess things up - buffing pos defenses, extended timers, etc that have been suggested here would cause huge issues in other areas.

There may be some mysterious NDA'd reasons why they'd like forcefields to go, but if it introduces docking games in any way then gg ccp, you'll see a metric **** tonne of complaints and unsubbing

The big floating "cities" with multiple pos on grid sounds cool and would look amazing... but it's a terrible idea. People pulling together twenty deathstars into a giant city of deathstars would be horrific

I don't.

I'm willing to give up new and shiny tools for POSes that work. I don't think new and shiny is synonymous with working. If CCP wants to add functionality by introducing new shiny, then for the love of Bob please remind them that functionality needs to be preserved with their new shiny too. Since this is a "when it's done" feature (as far as I can tell) then I am willing to wait for it to be done right. Thus far, I haven't seen anything that I want omgthatmuch. Maybe it looked better in person, but in text it simply isn't that appealing.

What I want to keep:
- The ability to log in and see my bros! Friendly intel is good too when you're figuring out what you want to do that day. Likewise, the ability to chillax in space at the POS.
- The ability to be a creepy voyeur watching other people at their POSes. It's really nice to see what other people are doing and what ships they're flying. As long as I can see all active pilots at a POS, what ships they're flying, and what POS mods they're interacting with as applicable, it's fine if you add an animation where the ships tap-dance around our new deathstar overlords. I'd like to be able to see the ships on dscan too.
- The ability to jump into a wormhole and see whether POSes are online or offline at a glance.
- The ability to find POSes without dropping probes.
- POS gunning! I have a soft spot in my heart for this (and it's really cool and useful, though the interface is not cool at all).
- Shared hangar and item space.

What I want that we don't have:
- A way to enable audit logging or some other record of ships taken out/put into SMAs or whatever their replacements may be.
- Better roles! The amount of access you need in order to do industry is silly. More granularity in allowing access to various things is much desired.
- Refitting T3s at POSes somehow. A special module, some way of doing it while it's in the hangar, anything.
- Refining with the tools we have available sucks. This doesn't need to be addressed with POSes, but it sucks.
- Better personal item storage. Cans and ship cargo holds get tedious.
- Springboarding off of the former, better blueprint identification. They don't have to be locked to a person, but some way of putting a "this is mine!" or "this is for corp!" tag on it aside from everyone having to use a separate hangar division/all the cans in the world would be excellent.
- POS interfaces that don't make people suffer.
- Inspired by post above me: repackaging things at POSes!
edit: Two more things I thought of:
- Some kind of vending machine where corp/alliance members can purchase goods directly from the corp/alliance without having to go through the rigamarole of finding the right item and figuring out the correct price and putting it in the right wallet division.
- Once establishments come out, establishment modules where you can moor/move into their sphere of access and do establishment-y things. This won't be relevant until establishments happen, because I'm pretty sure no one wants a module that lets them walk around a mostly empty room and look at a door that they can't open.

That's all I can think off of the top of my head; I may remember some other stuff later.

I don't want docking in lieu of force fields. I don't want to replace POS guns with "station guns". I still want the environment we have with POSes. I just want these POS improvements to make things more better, not stations lite. Make the super docking thing with an undock something that you can't anchor in w-space or without sov or something if you really want that.

Wow I really hate to hear that station games will be headed into WH space. My corp was war-deced three times by four to five man corps. These guys didn’t want to fight just run in and out of high sec stations. So we moved into a wormhole to avoid the whole grief dec kiddy game thing. As for POS are they really broken? I suppose I look at the POS in a different light, I live on and in the unknown fringes of space. I do NOT expect nor want to see the EVE version of a fricking Mc-Mansion on the dangerous unknown edges of space. If we want outposts, stations and all of the crap that comes with it we would move to 0.0. PLEASE I have no problem with change, but the entire development team that is going to make these changes should move into a nice C4 and live there for two months. Then come back HERE to the forums and discuss this with the folks who pay to live in the wonderful universe you guys work so hard to create and maintain.

Good and bad points here. As far as intel goes, most of us would just log off in space in a recon or bomber, thus enabling us to cloak when we came back. Like most wh dwellers, I have plenty of safe's in my home system, so I can work around the intel issue.

Bringing docking games into wh's would be horrible, nobody likes this style of gaming. So I am against stations in wh's for this alone.

Lastly POS gunning can make a real difference in wh's, I am not in favor of removing this part of the game in any way.

It's been said before, and it's still true. CCP created a nearly perfect enviroment in wh's. Yes it's tough and yes it's dangerous, but there are many of us who thrive out there and love it. CCP needs to stop being so narrowly focused in 0.0. You are pandering to a clear minority of your population, to the detriment of the rest.

Wh's are the true home of small gang PvP in EvE. If you really need to remove force fields/POS's from the game, fine. But replace it with something that keeps the best aspects of POS's, not something that brings some of the lame aspects of the game to wh space.

I want this ^^^ , thanks Ethan, your thoughts are spot on.

Terrible ideas presented in CSM minutes and what I don't want :
- Multiple POS'es on grid cause it would impossible to destroy any well thought out establishment;
- Any mechanic in any way that would allow docking games <-- belongs to kspace