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Barge Fairy Tale

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2921 - 2012-08-07 22:23:31 UTC
Pankas Carter wrote:
Note you've got the tool set for all your skills to V. In actual practice, that's probably not going to be true. That's a huge time investment.


I have all of the skills needed for that tank on both my main and this character. My main has a little short of 30M SP, this character has <25M.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2922 - 2012-08-07 22:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Pipa Porto wrote:
Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1


to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is silly

nevermind, works with SU I

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2923 - 2012-08-07 22:27:59 UTC
And becuase they exist, CCP can choose to buff us in response. Surprise

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2924 - 2012-08-07 22:28:55 UTC
Shield upgrades 5 is kind of silly though, unless you fly all shield tank ships. The hulk is shield tanked though, so perhaps not too silly.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#2925 - 2012-08-07 22:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
I'd also hate my player base for all the moronic assumptions.

I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. I just don't think it should be profitable. Its amazing how so many think catering to d-bags is somehow sustainable in what is supposed to be a sandbox game. You want to see a game population where the wolves outnumber the sheep and no safety zones? Take a look at Darkfall.


if it isn't profitable, it's not a viable profession, and you'll be just as "safe" flying in an empty, supertanked occator as you are in an untanked badger with your entire life's worth

please make me laugh some more



alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2926 - 2012-08-07 22:29:10 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.


Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan.

But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2927 - 2012-08-07 22:29:33 UTC
rodyas wrote:
And becuase they exist, CCP can choose to buff us in response. Surprise


because suicide ganking has never been nerfed ever lol

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2928 - 2012-08-07 22:31:49 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
rodyas wrote:
And becuase they exist, CCP can choose to buff us in response. Surprise


because suicide ganking has never been nerfed ever lol


A bit confused on that messageing, unless you count loggofski nerf, making it harder for capitals to gank, or maybe the AOE titan nerf, making it harder for them to gank.

Mostly hear about the nano nerf and other ones, like jump bridges and stuff.

Not up to the times with ganker nerfs.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2929 - 2012-08-07 22:31:49 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:

I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.


Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan.

But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable.


oh please, you can fill an expanded Iteron V with ∞ titan blueprints so they should have ∞ EHP

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2930 - 2012-08-07 22:31:55 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1


to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is silly

nevermind, works with SU I

Wouldn't you also need hull upgrades V and mechanic V to get the full base EHP of the ship as well?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2931 - 2012-08-07 22:33:11 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:

I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.


Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan.

But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable.


oh please, you can fill an expanded Iteron V with ∞ titan blueprints so they should have ∞ EHP


well to be fair, There are not basic ships designed to haul titan blueprints, so blaming the pilot is a bit far. They do have the cov-ops hauler. But in a way, the shuttle can be the best hauler, who would have seen that. And perhaps is that bad game design?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2932 - 2012-08-07 22:34:04 UTC
rodyas wrote:
A bit confused on that messageing, unless you count loggofski nerf, making it harder for capitals to gank, or maybe the AOE titan nerf, making it harder for them to gank.

Mostly hear about the nano nerf and other ones, like jump bridges and stuff.

Not up to the times with ganker nerfs.


CONCORD buff that made them instaneut, permajam and instapop you, halving of concord response times for the nth time, across-the-board boost to EHP on all ships "for the sake of increasing the length of fights," the removal of insurance payouts for losses to CONCORD, so on and so on

need I go on?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2933 - 2012-08-07 22:37:32 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:


alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio.


Acctually before the insurance nerf it was profitable to kill miners with a thorax thanks to the insurance payout. What changed was that my corp went and did it on an industrial scale.

Also if the DEVs are stopping us from ganking for profit why did they alter the stats on barges so that on the 8th they can still be killed for a profit?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2934 - 2012-08-07 22:38:32 UTC
Yeah forgot about those, just wasn't too much whining about them, so easily forgotten.

But the goons did offer payments to help cover the insurance nerf, so perhaps that kept people from whining too much, and then me forgetting about it.

Well hi sec, is supppose to be more then people ganking others, so those nerfs came. If you choke out the activites in an area, you can pretty much expect a nerf to come.

You guys argue as if, ganking is the only thing that happens in hi sec, so its hard to see why all these nerfs happen to you. Gotta go out and explore and find new things.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Pipa Porto
#2935 - 2012-08-07 22:38:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1


to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is silly

nevermind, works with SU I

Wouldn't you also need hull upgrades V and mechanic V to get the full base EHP of the ship as well?


Not a very big difference.

vs Void, Mechanic 0 and Hull Upgrades 0 only costs you 1900 EHP.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2936 - 2012-08-07 22:39:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:


alright,, I guess i have to spell it out for you. Its obviously not supposed to be a viable profession. This has been confirmed by a DEV. Only with recent changes has minger ganking become reliably profitable, an obvious mistake. A dev TOLD YOU and you are still here saying the sky is black. Anyway, I'm done wasting my time arguing with forum dwellers that can't grasp risk/reward, simple concepts and other perspectives. Have fun dedicating your life to posting here, arguing like a radio.


Acctually before the insurance nerf it was profitable to kill miners with a thorax thanks to the insurance payout. What changed was that my corp went and did it on an industrial scale.

Also if the DEVs are stopping us from ganking for profit why did they alter the stats on barges so that on the 8th they can still be killed for a profit?


Because they are too afraid to be lame. I am not that way, but they are. It is kind of irksome they are that way, but who knows what to do about it.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2937 - 2012-08-07 22:40:38 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Shield Management 5, Tactical Shield Ops 4, Engineering 5, Electronics 5, Exhumers 5, Shield Upgrades 1, Energy Management 5, Hull Upgrades 1, Shield Rigging 1


to be fair this tank requires shield upgrades V but that's so trivial that screaming "WELL THAT'S AN ALL LEVEL 5 CHARACTER YOU THEORYCRAFTED IT WITH" is silly

nevermind, works with SU I

Wouldn't you also need hull upgrades V and mechanic V to get the full base EHP of the ship as well?


Not a very big difference.

vs Void, Mechanic 0 and Hull Upgrades 0 only costs you 1900 EHP.


Well that strategy mostly works, if you use a damage control unit If you don't use one, might not be worth getting the extra life from lvl 5 skills. Even then, you might still be gankable, so the entire effort is worthless.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2938 - 2012-08-07 22:40:43 UTC
rodyas wrote:
well to be fair, There are not basic ships designed to haul titan blueprints, so blaming the pilot is a bit far. They do have the cov-ops hauler. But in a way, the shuttle can be the best hauler, who would have seen that. And perhaps is that bad game design?


anybody who needs to move a 65bn isk blueprint should have the means to move it

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2939 - 2012-08-07 22:43:08 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:

I never said suicide ganking should be eliminated. Like soundwave, I LOVE that it is possible. I just don't think it should be profitable, easy, and with such a predictable result.


Lets say I fully expand an Iteron V and fill it with Estamel's Invulns. Thats 8369 modules at 18bil a piece, or 150,642,000,000,000ISK of value. Lets assume a gank fit Tornado is the best value for money at 150mil a ship it does roughly 10.5k alpha and in low highsec gets 2 shots off before Concord shows up. To lose isk it would take 1,004,280 Tornados. So an untanked, fully expanded Iteron V should have 21,089,880 EHP. Thats just over half the health of a fully officer tanked titan.

But thats ok because ganking isn't supposed to be profitable.


oh please, you can fill an expanded Iteron V with ∞ titan blueprints so they should have ∞ EHP


Ah crap I forgot about blueprints. I guess technically seeing as you can move an infinte number of BPOs in a shuttle we're going to have to just disable pvp in highsec to stop ganking being profitable.
Pipa Porto
#2940 - 2012-08-07 22:43:36 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Well that strategy mostly works, if you use a damage control unit If you don't use one, might not be worth getting the extra life from lvl 5 skills. Even then, you might still be gankable, so the entire effort is worthless.


So now the problem is being gankable at all. I see. I thought you were OK with suicide ganks, just not profitable ones.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto