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Hun Reloaded entering FW on Amarr side
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Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#81 - 2012-08-07 09:09:20 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Horak Thor wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Welcome to factional warfare.


Yes welcome who's kraken.



KRAKENDOT is most likely the most powerful entity within Caldari milltia v0v



ROFL
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#82 - 2012-08-07 15:21:23 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Actually, the isk sink is the same in terms of isk/lp whether you're at Tier 1 or Tier 5 because both scale with the FW Tier payouts. If there is more lp being turned in, then necessarily there is more isk removed from the economy. Has there been more LP turned in since the patch? The answer is probably yes.




The ISK per item at tiers 4&5 is redeuced 50% and 75% respectively. You probably will get a demand jump from these items if they are offered significantly cheaper but no where near the ISK reductions but I'm willing to bet no more then 10% ( and probably much less IMHO). The ISK per LP scaling arguement is silly... I suppose you'd argue if the ISK&LP reductions were equally reduced 99.99% (or greater) you'd still see the same results? Roll


OK, let's think this through for a minute here.
1. isk sunk/LP ratio stays the same. Confirmed.
2. More LP turned in. Assumed.
3. (isk sunk/LP)* LP turned in = isk sunk. Fact.

Assuming more LP turned in, then yes there is more isk sunk.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#83 - 2012-08-07 15:22:24 UTC
Pulgy wrote:
wow another alliance decides to give FW a shot and all the "elite" faction warriors come out of the woods mocking them Roll
Hey Pulgy! When is your alliance going to give FW a shot? Big smile
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#84 - 2012-08-07 16:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
X Gallentius wrote:
[OK, let's think this through for a minute here.
1. isk sunk/LP ratio stays the same. Confirmed.
2. More LP turned in. Assumed.
3. (isk sunk/LP)* LP turned in = isk sunk. Fact.

Assuming more LP turned in, then yes there is more isk sunk.

wrong you forgot points 4&5
Tier 4. (isk sunk/LP)* LP/2 turned in = isk sunk halved per item. Fact.
Tier 5. (isk sunk/LP)* LP*.75 turned in = isk sunk three-quartered per item. Fact.

Once thing I learned about farming in Incursions which will translate into FW farming: You are going to end up with a crap ton of LP at the end of the day because the LP markets will eventually collapse because the demand does not keep up.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#85 - 2012-08-07 17:11:16 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
[OK, let's think this through for a minute here.
1. isk sunk/LP ratio stays the same. Confirmed.
2. More LP turned in. Assumed.
3. (isk sunk/LP)* LP turned in = isk sunk. Fact.

Assuming more LP turned in, then yes there is more isk sunk.

wrong you forgot points 4&5
Tier 4. (isk sunk/LP)* LP/2 turned in = isk sunk halved. Fact.
Tier 5. (isk sunk/LP)* LP*.75 turned in = isk sunk three-quartered. Fact.

Once thing I learned about farming in Incursions which will translate into FW farming: You are going to end up with a crap ton of LP at the end of the day because the LP markets will eventually collapse because the demand does not keep up.


This is my last shot at it because I cannot help the math-impaired. The assumption is in 2.) MORE LP TURNED IN.
Example: If the same amount of LP was turned in at Tier 5, then 4 times as many items have been purchased. However, the same amount of isk has been sunk.

Do you think more LP has been turned in since this expansion?
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#86 - 2012-08-07 21:51:05 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:


This is my last shot at it because I cannot help the math-impaired. The assumption is in 2.) MORE LP TURNED IN.
Example: If the same amount of LP was turned in at Tier 5, then 4 times as many items have been purchased. However, the same amount of isk has been sunk.

Do you think more LP has been turned in since this expansion?


So where is the increased DEMAND comming from for all these items? Roll Not from me I got 4.5 million Concord LP I'm sitting on. Start undercutting all the other LP stores you will see some increased demand but you're going to soon find out how inelastic it is.

I wish the GOONs were able to keep all their FW bought +4 & +5 'plants just to speed up whats going to be happening over the next few months.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#87 - 2012-08-07 22:12:37 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
So where is the increased DEMAND comming from for all these items? Roll Not from me I got 4.5 million Concord LP I'm sitting on. Start undercutting all the other LP stores you will see some increased demand but you're going to soon find out how inelastic it is.

I wish the GOONs were able to keep all their FW bought +4 & +5 'plants just to speed up whats going to be happening over the next few months.


You are whining about isk - isk/lp ratios that will go down because FW items will flood market.
I am talking about "isk sink" - the amount of isk removed from the Eve economy by purchasing an LP store item.

Must be a language barrier thing.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-08-07 22:27:09 UTC
No idea if FW is a sink or faucet but I have 20b worth of **** in my hangar from a few weeks of playing
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#89 - 2012-08-07 23:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
X Gallentius wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
So where is the increased DEMAND comming from for all these items? Roll Not from me I got 4.5 million Concord LP I'm sitting on. Start undercutting all the other LP stores you will see some increased demand but you're going to soon find out how inelastic it is.

I wish the GOONs were able to keep all their FW bought +4 & +5 'plants just to speed up whats going to be happening over the next few months.


You are whining about isk - isk/lp ratios that will go down because FW items will flood market.
I am talking about "isk sink" - the amount of isk removed from the Eve economy by purchasing an LP store item.

Must be a language barrier thing.



The Faction item supply is going to way outstrip the demand the ratios are not going to help that at all. Ergo since the Tier 4 ISK reductions per item is now 75% the Tier 3 normal LP price you will be seeing a significant total LP store ISK sink reduction come February if not sooner unless people just let thier stuff sit in their hangars & continue to buy more.

Lyron-Baktos wrote:
No idea if FW is a sink or faucet but I have 20b worth of **** in my hangar from a few weeks of playing


lol Lyron I suggest selling it before X-Mass or your **** will be worth alot less then 20b and you won't be able to sell it anyways.
It is not an ISK faucet but it'll definately start eating away at the LP stores' ISK sink function for the economy ( hmm one thing I've not accounted for is the new FW datacores are they now a new ISK sink? and are they too now also affected by the 75% ISK reduction

EDIT: Interesting Datacores are now an 10k ISK sink NPC sell order for the old datacore farmers
and a new LP store item @ 50k ISK(at Tier 3) so a new ISK sink was introduced to Eve)
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#90 - 2012-08-07 23:32:24 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


The Faction item supply is going to way outstrip the demand the ratios are not going to help that at all. Ergo since the Tier 4 ISK reductions per item is now 75% the Tier 3 normal LP price you will be seeing a significant total LP store ISK sink reduction come February if not sooner unless people just let thier stuff sit in their hangars & continue to buy more.
BTW, if prices go down too far, we'll all be flying navy faction ships and will be derping into each other 23/7. Resource rich, isk poor, but having fun.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#91 - 2012-08-07 23:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
X Gallentius wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


The Faction item supply is going to way outstrip the demand the ratios are not going to help that at all. Ergo since the Tier 4 ISK reductions per item is now 75% the Tier 3 normal LP price you will be seeing a significant total LP store ISK sink reduction come February if not sooner unless people just let thier stuff sit in their hangars & continue to buy more.
BTW, if prices go down too far, we'll all be flying navy faction ships and will be derping into each other 23/7. Resource rich, isk poor, but having fun.


You forgot to add that everyone will be flying with +5 implants in our heads and not to worried about being podded with them in NULL bubbles Blink The PvP NULL trolls in the foruems will be absolutely livid because our lack of tears LolBear
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
GenesisMike
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-08-08 03:40:46 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
So where is the increased DEMAND comming from for all these items? Roll Not from me I got 4.5 million Concord LP I'm sitting on. Start undercutting all the other LP stores you will see some increased demand but you're going to soon find out how inelastic it is.

I wish the GOONs were able to keep all their FW bought +4 & +5 'plants just to speed up whats going to be happening over the next few months.


You are whining about isk - isk/lp ratios that will go down because FW items will flood market.
I am talking about "isk sink" - the amount of isk removed from the Eve economy by purchasing an LP store item.

Must be a language barrier thing.



The Faction item supply is going to way outstrip the demand the ratios are not going to help that at all. Ergo since the Tier 4 ISK reductions per item is now 75% the Tier 3 normal LP price you will be seeing a significant total LP store ISK sink reduction come February if not sooner unless people just let thier stuff sit in their hangars & continue to buy more.

Lyron-Baktos wrote:
No idea if FW is a sink or faucet but I have 20b worth of **** in my hangar from a few weeks of playing


lol Lyron I suggest selling it before X-Mass or your **** will be worth alot less then 20b and you won't be able to sell it anyways.
It is not an ISK faucet but it'll definately start eating away at the LP stores' ISK sink function for the economy ( hmm one thing I've not accounted for is the new FW datacores are they now a new ISK sink? and are they too now also affected by the 75% ISK reduction

EDIT: Interesting Datacores are now an 10k ISK sink NPC sell order for the old datacore farmers
and a new LP store item @ 50k ISK(at Tier 3) so a new ISK sink was introduced to Eve)



Maybe some pilots actually like having hangars full of faction ships to fly....

Who said I'm trying to sell all those faction ships and items I have now? Having 20B of ships in your hangar is a good thing Darth, some people like to fly them not just sell them.
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2012-08-08 11:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Karah Serrigan
DarthNefarius wrote:

EDIT: Interesting Datacores are now an 10k ISK sink NPC sell order for the old datacore farmers
and a new LP store item @ 50k ISK(at Tier 3) so a new ISK sink was introduced to Eve)

Sir, i think you are a very confused man. Let me help you by clarifying the very definition of some of the words you use.

Datacores are not an isk sink. An ISK sink is something that removes ISK from the game. For example LP conversions. When you convert your LP you also need to pay ISK for that. This ISK gets removed from the game. Another example are sov bills, they remove ISK from the game because the money goes to NPCS. Yet another example is trading. For each item you sell you pay a small transaction and broker fee, which goes to NPCs and is hereby removed from the game. The list goes on and on, in some cases even insurance is an isk sink, but you need to manage not to lose your ship until it runs out so you dont get the payment, otherwise it would be an isk faucet.

So what is not an ISK sink? Selling items like datacores to NPCs. ISK doesnt get removed, the opposite is the case. An item (the one you want to sell) gets removed and you gain ISK out of no where, similar to killing rats. This is an isk faucet.

What is neither isk sink nor faucet? Trading (bar the fees). Already existing ISK circulates from player to player and the amount doesnt change (again, bar the small percentage of fees).

Edit: Going through your post again, i think i misunderstood you. Your wording in the third paragraph is very weird and you mix things up, but i guess you got the right idea.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#94 - 2012-08-08 11:37:19 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Actually, the isk sink is the same in terms of isk/lp whether you're at Tier 1 or Tier 5 because both scale with the FW Tier payouts. If there is more lp being turned in, then necessarily there is more isk removed from the economy. Has there been more LP turned in since the patch? The answer is probably yes.




The ISK per item at tiers 4&5 is redeuced 50% and 75% respectively. You probably will get a demand jump from these items if they are offered significantly cheaper but no where near the ISK reductions but I'm willing to bet no more then 10% ( and probably much less IMHO). The ISK per LP scaling arguement is silly... I suppose you'd argue if the ISK&LP reductions were equally reduced 99.99% (or greater) you'd still see the same results? Roll


OK, let's think this through for a minute here.
1. isk sunk/LP ratio stays the same. Confirmed.
2. More LP turned in. Assumed.
3. (isk sunk/LP)* LP turned in = isk sunk. Fact.

Assuming more LP turned in, then yes there is more isk sunk.


I do not know how much others used isk to change lp store items on last dump, but i used several billions.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#95 - 2012-08-09 06:56:04 UTC
Dear HUN Reloaded,

Please feed me more billion ISK Tengu kills.

Sincerely,
-Xuixien

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist